Discussion: Foot-O

Does anybody know what the origin of the term "Foot-O" is? Am I the only one that feels it does a disservice to marketing our sport?

I don't think you are Robinson Crusoe having that thought. Banish the phrase.

I seem to remember it being an IOF-sponsored term, but don't have (or care to pursue) research to back up that claim.

I don't think anyone tries to use the term Foot-O to market our sport. I wouldn't. But I can say as the OUSA Rules Chair, that it's definitely necessary from a rules point of view to have some sort of language that precisely differentiates the various formats of orienteering.

@Hammer--you definitely are not.

The consistency of internal-facing vs. external-facing terminology is beneficial in the corporate world, unless code names are necessary to protect IP. Of course, we're out here to have fun.

How about run-O? cross country O?

What is O? 44?

First there was O. Then there were other Os. Then it was necessary to differentiate the Os. Why O why?

O 2.0
".. may allow users to interact and collaborate with each other..."

Stipulating that we'd probably be better off if someone travelled back in time to the 19th century and convinced the Swedish military to call it äventyr löpning from the beginning (those of us who existed in the new timeline, at any rate), as long as "orienteering" is the umbrella term for navigation as a sport I'm not confident we can do better than simply calling it "orienteering" in external-facing communications and generally except when the context makes it truly necessary to distinguish between pedestrian locomotion and other methods.

That said, I can't say I'm as offended by the term as many seem to be. Other sports seem to do all right despite having names starting with "foot".

To distinguish between the other forms any of the following could suffice:

Headband-O
PyjamO
Ankle brace-O
O-riginal
Bush WhackO

I think ski orienteers are to blame for inventing it, and the term lives in the same dungeon of my brain as "Had Fun Anyway".

ski-O, trail-O and bike-O made a term like foot-O somewhat necessary.

I think the original Swedish and German names for orienteering were orienterings lopare and orienteringslauf respectively. Literally translated I'm told the english name for the sport would be navigation running. Bjorn Kjellstrom apparently thought orienteering would sound better to the english ear than navigation running. There is no record of what he thought of the term 'O'.
I think the O term is best used only among the sport's insiders and not for its marketing.

tRicky may be going to one tomorrow http://eventor.orienteering.asn.au/Events/Show/417 He can tell us what it is ;)

Yes Jim, OAWA needs to change that!

Why not Orienteering, Orienteering on Skis, Orienteering on Mountain Bikes, etc.

Trail Orienteering is not Orienteering under IOF's own definition. It should be called Fine Map Interpretation or something similar.

Geez Simmo if you want to make a mouthful of the other sports why not just call the original one "Navigation whilst running and reading features to a standard whereby you can find controls craftily located in the bush O".

No tRicky, not a mouthful. 'Orienteering on Mountain Bikes' (OMTB for short) is only 2 letters and one very short syllable more than 'Mountain Bike Orienteering'.

As for that Trail stuff, they can call it what they like as long as it doesn't have 'orienteering' or 'O' in the name.

Orienteering on wheelchairs or orienteering for the disabled is not the right name for it, because a disabled person CAN do a real orienteering (in the IOF definition) course. In fact I have had probably hundreds of kids in wheelchairs, plus blind, deaf and intellectually disabled kids complete courses in my school sessions over the years.

So keep 'Orienteering' for the original sport, drop the '-O' everybody, and find a new, more descriptive name for that stuff where you look at a map and decide which flags are in which place while standing or sitting still.

How about OMG?

School sessions also aren't real orienteering.

Still has an O in it. How about tRicky Terrain Quiz?

Of course they are - how would you know?

Real Orienteering suits me if we need to distinguish running from the other navigation variants.

How about a simpler tax-O-nomy like tRicky-O, Easy-O and last but not least; Dumb-O (where most of us have been at some point)?

Oh-O

I agree with Gord. If you are going to use the word orienteering then the short form of O should only be used internal-facing (to use T/D's term).

The first time I heard the term foot-O used was at a ski-orienteering race in upstate NY in the mid to early 90's. I thought it was a quite odd term and didn't think much of it again until I saw that IOF some time later had adopted it.

If there is a need to differentiate the 'original' form of orienteering from other variants I like coach's suggestion of XC Orienteering as it links nicely to XC running.

But just simply using 'orienteering' works for me too.

Regarding the history of the term "foot-O," my recollection is that, in the USA at least, it popped up in the pages of Orienteering North America in the mid-90s. ONA at that time was produced by Larry and Sara Mae Berman, both avid fans of ski-O, and I'm pretty sure they started using "foot-O" as a way to give (in their minds at least) ski-O an equal status to "foot-O."

I'm also quite sure I (and others) thought that was rather silly. Witness, as a little digging in the archives will show, my report from the first Possum Trot in 1997.

@PG: That is a fun report.

I recall swampfox once writing (perhaps it was here on AP) something like. "Just because some people may play baseball on donkeys somewhere in south American doesn't mean it is Major League Foot Baseball.

Oh and I was going to say it was Carl Fey introduced the term to the World.

The very first issue (January 1985; vol 1, no 1) of the Berman era ONA has an article by Jim Pugh using the term "foot-orienteering" several times. So the term has been in use for at least 28 years.

We can do better than that! Issue 7 of "The Irish Orienteer" ,September 1983, page 21 has the line "..Foot O not to be in the '88 Olympics at Seoul". All those newsletters were scanned and put on www.orienteering.ie a few years ago, but that website has been "upgraded" recently and I can no longer find them. I do have a paper copy though!

I read this thread on Attackpoint recently that referred to a sport known as foot-O. I have no idea what they were referring to.

Maybe they were referring to this?

Some friends of mine thought 'foot-o' was some sort of football-based lottery or betting. I must admit I've never spoken or written the horrid phrase (until today tRicky).

@O-ing: What is Orienteering? > About Us > Archive ... scroll down to TIO archive. A bit odd having the About Us under What is Orienteering?, but I understand the desire to have less top level menus. I would probably move About Us to More, or its own menu.

What about Foot-In-Mouth-O?

I noticed the expression "Middle-O" in the latest edition of The Australian Orienteer. Haven't heard that one before and certainly not convinced by it.

If you have too many middy-Os you end up running in circles around 0.8m boulders.

Now Hammer what is your motive in starting this thread? You have successfully marketed a range of orienteering and related activities without using the term "orienteering" at all. Which I greatly admire:-))

Leg-O or O-leg )))

Yes my club, Golden Horseshoe Orienteering, has had good success rebranding as Dontgetlost Adventure Running in the very competitive southern Ontario sports market. With the strength of our Adventure Running Kids program ( where we never use the word orienteering) we have quickly grown to be Canada's largest orienteering club. But the aim of this thread was not to re-open the discussion of the dreadful marketing problems that are the words orienteering and rogaining. Rather, the aim was to find out the origin of Foot-O and hope somebody would suggest a more appropriate name. My preference is coach's suggestion of XC Orienteering.

But can't you go cross country in MTBO and ski-O also? (depending on location and local rules re: off track options)

Agreed anything with 'O' in it is useless for external communication, but it comes back to orienteering being a long word and us being lazy, so anything - orienteering keeps reverting to xxxx - O as it is faster/easier to say.

We have the problem with our Metro Orienteering series, which keep getting shortened to MetrO by all and sundry.

Dare I beat my tired drum about the local success of NavDash for Sprint-O?

Probably...

Well I did already suggest NavCrash in place of MTBO.

So the issue is a bigger one than "Foot-O". We need a suitable term for our group of navigation sports, and consistent terms for the types within it. I think the problem goes back to the word orientering. Just too many syllables, even before we try to tack on suffixes.

Map Running
Map Biking
Map Skiing
Map Guessing.

And overall, Mapsport.

Did anybody else get a little excited about the hint of XXX-O mentioned by fletch above?

That'd put a new twist on it.

Ya know - it is the driver of all things technology related - VHS, internet, web sites...

Take any of those and start associating them with pyjamas and people will not come. Why this focus on the name? It's like the IOF thinking they can make the sport grow by ******* around with the format of WOC.

Call it whatever you want, but make it fun.

Heck Steve it fits the name formula already... p***-O

On a more serious note - thank you Neil for that note of sanity! Yes the name can make a small bit of difference but it's only a tiny part of the image of the sport. Let's deal with the big picture items.

What are the big picture items Jeff?

I'd argue it is getting people on maps and into the forests and navigating. Growth in participation in a range of age groups. So if marketing is one way to do that and that involves name changes then do it.

But i would also argue it is more than the name.
It is the overall product that is limiting growth.

Primarily: Image media presence and marketing (and yes you could argue this includes the name of the sport but I'm not convinced that's an issue), a fun festive atmosphere at events, the difficulty to learn our sport (How many clubs offer junior programs? Adult programs?)

I'm sure people could come up with more but those are the big three off the top of my head.

So don't say Foot-O

Eg instead of just sending newbies out on courses without much help, HS organises courses, one theory class, one practical class (star exercises with guidance on hand if needed) and only then are they sent out to do real orienteering. And no shortage of people signing up, despite calling it suunnistus.

To be clear I'm not a fan of the term Foot-O either.

[ARK] where we never use the word orienteering

In your marketing, or anywhere?

Eg instead of just sending newbies out on courses without much help

Or offer formats that don't need much help to get started. I'm not convinced that the class way would work in North America. Call it a class/clinic and for many people, the fun element is instantly gone. They don't offer classes at mudders, do they?

Right.

Mudders doesn't need a brain to compete though. That's why it appeals to so many.

I'd like to point out that we've got 140 people racing in our competition classes this weekend at O-Fest and about 70 people signed up for clinics - which we've described as such. People want to learn the sport - I don't think we need to shy away from advertising that fact.

@guy: sorry for delay in responding (was away in AB for work). Anyways, the short answer to your question would be 'anywhere' but somewhere on the web site it does mention that ARK participation includes membership in Golden Horseshoe Orienteering. As I have said before the word orienteering, at least in a southern Ontario context, has a lot of baggage due to the image of the sport (PJs, non-athletic, boy scouts compass games, etc). As I wrote about in the ONA and OC newsletters earlier this year, GHO during our HKF years learned that we could grow participation by changing the name of the race/sport (adventure running) and by making the barrier to entry lower (offering team races). We have had good success with massive growth in participation and revenue (e.g., total participation in our 2013 spring and autumn Adventure Running Kids programs is 1125 kids).

Having said that OttawaOC has had great success going with a more traditional approach and sticking with the name orienteering. In 2012, GHO and OOC were the largest and 4th largest clubs in Canada, respectively, so it demonstrates that there are many ways to grow the sport. Ontari"O" !!

@T/D & CDN: Like OOC, our free navigation clinics at our training races are hugely popular. Most people starting a new sport sign up for coaching or clinics of some sort. Seems prudent to offer clinics in orienteering as well.

One of my friends teaches a popular clinic called Obstacle Racing 101.

As registrar for GHO events, one thing that surprises me is how many people with experience still sign up for our clinics to get a refresher or ask questions.

@Hammer: Thank you for your thorough response! No prob on the barely-noticed delay.

When I was up in NB for the Ocean Floor Sprint (the only ECOC event I attended), I spoke with several ARK (& ARX) kids and their parents. Because of the "ssssh -- it's orienteering" approach, one of the things I asked was how far into their first ARK season did they find out that they were doing orienteering. The answers were best summarized as a week or two. While the sample size was (quite) small, and these kids were obviously hooked on orienteering, I actually expected at least a month.

BTW, I also found out that, except for some kids whose dad did AR, none of them knew about orienteering before ARK. Well done GHO!!

I'm starting a new club in Albany - Western Australia - in 2014 and am keen to hear from folk who've 'been there, done that'. I want to avoid orienteering's baggage and share the sentiments of many of the above posters. I know threads have rolled on in the past about this topic, but preferably email me at gone4run at iinet.net.au

Albany is a regional town of 35,000 at least 200km from another small regional club. Happy to filter through people's ideas or links to information to find some nuggets of wisdom! Thanking all in advance.

I came across this on Wikipedia page about the game Yahtzee:

According to Lowe, the game did not initially do well commercially, since the rules and appeal were not easily conveyed in an advertisement. Eventually, he had the idea of organizing Yahtzee parties at which people could play the game and thereby gain a firsthand appreciation of it. The idea was successful, and enthusiasts quickly popularized the game through word of mouth.

The E.S. Lowe company sold Yahtzee from 1956 to 1973. During Lowe's ownership, a number of changes were made to the game's packaging, contents, and appearance. Between 1956 and 1961, the game's advertising slogan was changed from "The Game That Makes You Think While Having Fun" to "The Fun Game That Makes Thinking Fun!"

Sounds familiar...

Orienteering: The Fun Sport That Makes Thinking Fun!

Orienteering: It's Really Frustrating When You Can't Find The Control And It's Raining!

...and more so when you ran within 20m of it 10mins earlier ;-)

No GPS means I have no idea how close I was or wasn't.