Discussion: Top Ten maps in North America

I case there's anybody out here in Attackpoint land who hasn't seen the notices on other mailing lists, O/NA is running a survey to find out what people think are the top 10 orienteering maps in North America (more information is on page 23 of the latest O/NA). Lists of people's personal top tens are to be emailed to jjcote@juno.com. And feel free to post this information to other emails lists, club newsletters, etc.; we want to hear from as many varied people as possible.

Thanks,
J-J

...And when that survey is done, can we make a list of the worst 10 maps in North America? :)

I will start with my top ten in Canada because my Top 10 Nor-Am is heavily weighted to Harriman.

1) Mount Laurie (AB)
2) Arkell Hills (ON)
3) NAOC'98 Map (BC) Name?
4) Hilton Falls (ON)
5) Copeland Forest (ON)
6) Laurentian University (ON)
7) Mineral Springs (ON)
8) Six Mile Lake (BC)
9) Starkey Hills (ON)
10) Indian Harbour (NS)

Top 10 Nor-Am?
1) Jackie Jones (NY
2) Surebridge Mtn (NY)
3) Sebago Beach (NY)
4) Polebrook Mtn (NY)
5) WOC SHort Selections map name? NY)
6) Baileytown (NY)
7) Mt. Laurie (AB)
8) Arkell Hills (ON)
9) Pawtuckaway (NH)
10) Silvermine (NY)

-Mike W.

Update to my list.
Canada #3 - Pothole Lake
Nor-AM #1 - Rockhouse
Nor-AM #4 - Jackie Jones (mixed those two up).
Thanks JJ for clarifying this.
-MW

I would add Great Falls near Washington DC. Nowhere near as difficult as Harriman but sooooo nice to run through.

And what about the VWOC 97 Minnesota maps? They certainly looked very nice..

My top ten are listed here with little map snippets. It is definitely bias towards the west.

In no particular order:
1. Pothole Lake (I misidentified it as Aspen Grove on my webpage)
2. Mt. Laurie
3. Surebridge Mountain (there are several others from Harriman Park that could be added).
4. The Map Formerly Known as Blue Mountain
5. Pelican Bay
6. Mt. Pinos
7. Vasquez Rocks
8. Spooner Lake (more a vote for the terrain than the map)
9. Camp Ripley (again one map of many in the area that are really cool)
10. Seton Park North

I'm curious, JJ. Do you want the top ten maps, as chosen based on map quality? That's what the phrase means to me. But others seem to be selecting based on terrain as well as map quality (which is fine if that's what you want), or maybe even just on terrain quality. Those are three different criteria. What's your intent?

Best places to orienteer. The quality of the mapping could be a factor in this, but an excellent map of a boring area isn't what I had in mind. An excellent area with a really flaky map might make it, but it would have to be a really special place.

Um... not to offend our friends north of the border, but certain areas in a territory north of the state in which a certain IOF event was held in a certain year in the mid- to late-90's come perilously close to J-J's "special place" definition.

Was this ever published?

Hey JJ, didn't you already coordinate a similar effort some years ago? I remember making my own list, and reading many others, but I don't remember any final tallying. What is the status of that work?

Surebridge Mt, Silvermine, Pawtuckaway (most awesome boulders on any O map - boulders 'just sitting there' to even 40' (est) above one's head).

The map from my house to the beer store and the inset which is a map from any place in my house to the fridge. I only have two. For the other 8 I defer to Hammer.

I have many gaps in my N American orienteering experience (eg I've never been to Harriman, West Point, Pawtuckaway or Minnesota), but based on where I have run, my list would probably be:

1 - Mount Laurie, AB
2 - Vasquez Rocks, CA
3 - Spooner Lake, NV
4 - Bastrop, TX
5 - Pelican Bay, WY (although hard to pick just one Laramie map)
6 - Hickory Run, PA
7 - Prince William Forest, VA
8 - Manitou Lake, CO
9 - Oak Mountain, AL
10 - William A Switzer Provincial Park, AB

Hey Eric ... If you check the date on the first message in this thread I think you can answer your first question for yourself :-). And ... if you came up with a "top ten" (many years ago), what are they?

...9 - Oak Mountain, AL...

Great nomination! I'd move Oak Mountain up my list. Too bad we haven't enjoyed an A-meet there for several years.

By the way, what are the criteria for judging "best O maps?" I'd suggest that convenience and accessibility should not necessarily be considered. Otherwise we'll end up overweight with maps in the O-zone.

"best O maps": (highly?) challenging terrain, beautiful in the beholding, spot-on mapping, excellent cartography - in this order by my defining. Middle two might be reversed by others.

doh, Brian thanks for the "heads up".

My list is apparently long gone, the victim of one of many complete dumps of my email by damn JUNO.

From memory, my list was mostly conventional, 1-Surebridge , 2-Pawtuckaway... but with two possible exceptions that are no longer on people's minds.

# 3- might have been Ward Pound Ridge, NY, in my mind the best all around (not just advanced level) area I know of. Also, I might have included Mission Hill, Upper Peninsula Mich, in the top 10, only 3km2, of sand terrain, but well worth the 4 days of A meets it hosted, and complex enough for the mapper to run right off the edge of his own map.

I know I had a long list of honorable mentions, trying to pay tribute to many parts of the continent.

If JJ's paying attention, I'd sure be interested in my list, as well as the rest.

I seem to recall mentioning Florida maps (eg Woodpecker). Fast running, subtle features. I also definitely mentioned Ft Desjarlais and Spruce Woods in Manitoba for their intricate sandhill terrain. I am SO looking forward to returning to Ft Desjarlais next months. Look out cows! I may also have mentioned VWC '97 maps, Kettle Moraine in Wisconsin and glaciated terrain in southern Michigan eg Pontiac Lake.

Since the original list, I would certainly add the sprint map of Hopewell Rocks.

Sprint maps should have their own "10 Best" list. I can't imagine a small scrap of a map competing with the full-sized A-meet maps mentioned above.

And speaking of map scraps, now that I run Brown courses, I'd like to plead that meet directors give us the full map in our map cases too. Fold it if you wish. But we pay full meet fees; don't we deserve a full map to enjoy just like the big boys?

And occasionally I'll copy the longer courses onto my map, and stay over to Monday to run them for practice....sometimes the controls are still in place!

Camp Ripley was mentioned is a top ten map. MNOC is hosting rare meet a Camp Ripley this fall, the weekend before the US Champs in Wisconsin. Don't miss your chance to run there.

I do research in Michigan's U.P. And was wondering where the Mission Hill map is?

Thanks to Spike for sending me a google map link

I grew up in Escanaba in the UP and still visit mom there. But I pretty much left in '68 and thus never heard of orienteering. Spike or anyone else, do you have copies of UP maps? At some time, I'd love to have a copy and run the maps. The topo of Mission Hill is a fascinating little area just west of the Soo - it seems to be an isolated 'mesa' near Lake Superior with lots of contour detail.
http://www.trails.com/topo.aspx?lat=46.471965&lon=...
Hammer, what are you studying in what regions?

I have a feeling Mission Hill's vegetation may be different/worse today. Apparently Barr Tract, done by Hammer's dad, has undergone a change since its lightning fast '83 Can Champs debut. DVOA's French Creek vegetation has turned for the worse as well. I don't think either made my top 10, they but might be on somebody's list. Should we rate by memories or known current state?

Based on the 2000 US Champs (and 2003 A-event), Spackman Creek (PA) was one of my faves. I wonder if it would still qualify today...

Barr Tract WAS lightning fast with M21 running in 5'ish min/km but today (new map is called Craighurst) you would be hard pressed to go sub 8!

The map is almost 100% reforested but logging and 'forest management' has made the terrain much much slower.

Interestingly the map across the road (Copeland) is getting faster because it is almost all hardwood. Copeland was considered too thick in the early 80's for O but it was a very worthy area for the NAOC in 94.

Barr times were not just 5 ish, but low 5's, My math shows a 5:07/km. Both Blue Courses were obviously (in hindsight) too short, but even if the courses were ~50% longer, I think the times might still be the fastest ever in NA. Any other legit forest venues close to that?

Spackman - One of my favorites as well, almost certainly in my top 10, and in a close race with Hickory Run "Central" (2008 TT Middle) for my favorite DVOA area. I give points to Spackman for being an area which I believe is sincerely enjoyable for less skilled orienteers, unlike Surebridge and Pawtuckaway. Fortunately, I think this area is still in good shape, although the recent events there have been in peak summer veg which may color perceptions.

A recent map (since the initial survey) that would probably butt into my top 10 is CNYO/MD's NA Middle terrain, the Salmon Hatchery (correct name?).

I had originally intended to turn this into an article for O/NA, but it got too difficult to compile opinions, in paet because some people woudl say "Silvermine" or "Surebridge", while others would say "Harriman". I may still have the list in whatever partial state I had gotten it to, and when I finish fixing the computer with the dead motherboard, I'll look for it.

(Pawtuckaway is actually not bad at all for White and Yellow, thanks to the campground area, but it's a tough place to set Orange courses. The annual family camping weekend has been very successful.)

Pawtuckaway boulders...