Discussion: Heart Rate Monitor Training

I just bought a heart rate monitor. Can any of you attackpointers recommend a book or another resource for advice on how to train with it?

I am just starting to train as a runner, though I have a fitness base from a training for rock climbing. I always shied away from running fast until the orienteering bug bit me. Now, I want to run faster ;-)

If you want a glimpse into the world of obsessive number crunching athletes and how to setup such a training program (including heartrate work), I'd recommend:

SERIOUS Training for Endurance Athletes
by Rob Sleamaker and Ray Browning

This would get you well on your way to knowing what/why. After awhile you'll eventually feel what you need to be doing.

Hint number one... save yourself a lot of time and trouble and get a proper VO2/Lactate treadmill test done to set your zones.

Zones based on MaxHR driven by age based formulas (eg 220 - age) have a high chance of being next to useless for you...

Good luck with that Timex. We had a discussion last December about someone who had purchased a Timex...and then asked about how it should be used. That thread may border on "too much information."

HoweverPolar Heart Rate monitors are considered by most serious athletes to be the only story in HRMs.

chitown: The Polars look very good, albeit out of my price range. I am hoping the Timex works. I could not beat the price for the features. I also like the 30 lap stopwatch for logging control splits.

tim_sleepless: "next to useless"? Are you really saying that training done at a heartrate that is slightly high or low from optimal training range is ineffectual? I would not have thought that a few beats a minute difference would not be all that critical. Are they really?

Well, it may very well be much more than a few beats. If I were to use the 220-Age formula to determine a max then, based on most HR training plans, I'd rarely go faster than a slow jog. Can't race fast if I never train fast.

Here is some information on the afore recommended book.

Well, notwithstanding the price of the Polars, they still have a very informative website, that has an excellent calibration system that they recommend you use to set up your HRM-guided exercise program.

Hey Bug... got into the HRM game 3 years ago and dropped 40lbs. I read http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460 (Mark Allen)
and have followed this advice for 3 years now. I got my AT tested and that helped b/c I was training a bit low. Works for me and maybe it will work for you. I know Lance Armstrong trains similarly yadda yadda yadda.. Good luck!

Most people find that they are doing most of their training too fast when they first start using a monitor. The difference in effort between hard days and easy days should be quite large. Going somewhat hard every day is sub-optimal.

I agree with ebuckley... still have to listen to your body. The HRM is more a guide. But, there is no rule that says eventually going easy doesn't mean not going fast as the article points out...

Yep, it's could easily be more than a few beats off. Max heart rates vary by up to 30 beats either side of the age predicted formula. And Lactate Threashold (which is actually the key number rather than MaxHR), can vary with a 30% band of that max.

I did the calculation cited in the duathlon article mentioned above and according to that formula, I have been training a little too hard. My experience supports that conclusion because I am on my second rest day to recover from two days of training. My leg muscles have been pretty sore. Perhaps I have been training above my Lactate Threshold?

Is there anyway to find the Lactate Threshold number without the fancy treadmill test? Can one find a close approximation by noting muscle soreness or some other physiological signal?

If you have a big hill nearby you can run that a few times. I max out on big hills. Do a few repeats until you're spent and review your max then and make your calculation. The test is worth it though b/c you actually see it on a graph. I voluteered for a study at a local hosital and got it done for free. See if there are any studies going around your area perhaps at a university or college.

Again, Bug it is more accurate.

Knowing your max HR is great, but your anaerobic threshold can't be determined from it. Your anaerobic threshold could be as low as 80% of max HR or as high as 95%. You would be better off trying a predictive tests like the 30min time trial.

The V02Max tests in the lab really provide a lot of useful information, your aerobic and anaerobic threshold running speeds and HR, max HR, and the training zones derived from these.

True markg... it's just an approximation to a test. But, I think everyone will agree getting a test is better.

Lactate/Anerobic threshold HR will be close to your max heart rate sustainible for an hour.

It really is the key number, MaxHR is of little real relevance.

The problem with traditional time trial tests is that if you don't know your pace going in, you'll start out at the wrong pace which blows the time trial. I suggest an alternative test: start running laps on the track at a pace that feels stiff; something you think you can hold for around 10 minutes. Keep running laps at this pace (exactly this pace, don't speed up or slow down even if you think the pace might be off). Keep going until you miss a split. Try to pick it up on the next lap to get back on pace. If you can, continue, otherwise, sprint for all your worth for 200m and stop. This results in a race run at pretty much perfect pace because the variable is the distance rather than the pace. Now use this result in the pace calculator on AttackPoint to calculate your training paces.

I received the HRM that I ordered and I am happy with it so far. It seems very good for $50. I am working with the canned HR zones for now and will try some of the techniques that you all have suggested to fine tune my HR training zones later on.

I am thinking about racing with it. I suppose it will help me to mantain a manageable race pace, especially in terrain with alot of hills.

Is it recommendable to race with an HRM?

Racing with a HRM?

I'd say sure, but only for the information afterwards. Especially as it is new to you, don't use it to try and govern your pace. Ignore it completely for that. Use the traditional "how you feel" measurements while you race or time if you're on a familiar event/course/length.

You do have to be careful racing with an HR.. the adrenaline will raise your heart rate for the same exertion level, so if you pace yourself solely by your HR, you'll end up running slower than you could.

Hey Todd... are you sorry you asked ? lol .....Do the VO2 max test.,.. it will set your ranges for you. MAX Hr is not a good measurement. I just had it done this spring and well worth the money if you are deciding to train/run seriously

I found this local lab that can do the test. Hmmmm. Am I that serious? Can I improve significantly without it? With the cost of the test I will have to ponder this for awhile...

Did you check local Universities/Colleges? If you can participate in a test it's free. I think you can improve signifcantly without it! I used my heart monitor for 2 years before actually getting tested and still saw signifcant improvement personally. I bet you will too... Spend the money on good trail shoes and do lots of hills!!! :D

When I was junior I did VO2/Lactate treadmill test couple of times. For me 30-40min time trial would work fine with formula:

anaerobic threshold = average HR without first couple of minutes

aerobic threshold = 0.895 X anaerobic threshold

Like ebuckley wrote, you need to be able to start at about right pace - but if start pace is off, you can always try again after couple of days. It's not bad idea to do it several times / regularly anyway. And if you do lab test, it's good to double check & compare results with a time trial test.

I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that HR information isn't useful during a race. Yes, it has to be taken in the context of how you feel, but it's a pretty useful indicator of effort in a long event. Last winter I was passed by two runners in the Pensacola Marathon at 10 miles. I stayed with them for a bit and the pace felt OK, but I noticed my HR bumped up more than I wanted it to that early in the race. I let them go and ended up passing them both back in the last five miles.

Another thing to note if you aren't used to looking at HR graphs is "cardiac drift". This is basically the tendency of HR to increase throughout at steady effort. It's most noticable in near maximual efforts between 45 minutes and 2 hours. A steady increase of 2-3 BPM every 15 minutes is normal and does not indicate that you are about to blow up.

The most notable benefit I get from monitoring my HR during a race is to notice when I'm running too slow and make efforts to push myself harder.

Then again, I might be lazier than most...

How much does lactate threshold change with training? I am a very old fart and had my LT measured about 1.5 years ago. It was 134. I think I am in about the same shape cardiovascular wise then as now. However, when I try to keep my pulse at or below 134, I am barely moving, with 10 minute miles and having to walk up hills. I seem to be able to run comfortably at a pulse rate of about 145. Have I improved my fitness and my LT is now really about 145, or am I in worse shape because I have to run so slowly to keep my pulse at 134?

Evan

Evan, your anaerobic/lactate threshold certainly does improve with training. I'm not sure exactly how much, but I've read that well trained athletes can have a threshold as high as 95% of max HR (these number are about right but don't quote me!) while in an untrained runner it's probably more like 85% of max HR. As to whether you are fitter, how does your running speed now compare to 1.5 years ago at the same heart rates or perceived exertion level?

I don't honestly know, since I didn't have a heart rate monitor then. It feels like I am running much slower, but I haven't road raced in a long time, and haven't done any trial runs on a consistent basis, so I don't have any hard data. I was shocked, however, after I got my Garmin Forerunner 305 and found out just how slowly I run now. 27 years ago I ran a 2:52 marathon. Now I can barely do a 9 minute miles on the flat.

Evan

Well, if you can run comfortably with your heart rate at 145 and maintain it for some time, presumably it is below your threshold?

It's off topic but you might be interested in this article on Peak Performance online which highlights reduced knee flexion as a limiting factor to running speed common in the more aged.

I ran my first races with the new HRM last Saturday and I can't believe how high my HR was during the race. 165~174 bpm. It was eye opening to see my little ticker in action. When I noticed I was above 170 I eased off the throttle because I thought the speeed would deplete me. Seemed to work well.

Am I strange? Or do all you attackpoint orienteers race near 90~95% of your maximum HR?

165-175 is (was, haven't used it for a while) my HR when O racing topping off in the 180s. Kind of blows the 220 minus age theory. If I used that, I would never do much beside walk;-}

Kind of blows the 220 minus age theory. If I used that, I would never do much beside walk;-}

Or maybe you just have the heart of a 35 year old. :-)

She is cute, but she's actually 34. And she and her husband are coming home next week to visit for a few days. More rest.

lion come after you, you better run real fast, not walk. you try to tell lion run at 175 mebbe 180, lion gonna eat you right up!

In the jungle, the quiet jungle, the lion sleeps.....