Discussion: National champs - International rules
in: Orienteering; General
Feb 20, 2013 12:36 PM
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Swedes finally discover how to crown Swedish citizen as a Swedish champion. http://www.orienterare.nu/n/20189 (google)
What we have in common and which international rules can be good for all?
1) There should be a rule that you can not pick national medals anyway", says Lina Strand.
Agree. We have this system for ages. Only if you have national passport and you are registered within Slovenia club you can be a Slovenian champ. All sports use this system because runner gets a free medical services, club gets a few $ on local level and federation gets a few $ on national level for youth program.
2) I do not care if I get Czech champions or the like." Said William Lind
Agree. Do other people from other countries really care about being the Swedish champion? I always thought that people care more about beating Swedish runners on Swedish terrain on their national events!
3) The Nordic unions should work to ensure that all national orienteering federations agreed to divide the national championships in two categories - open or closed.
Agree. We use a system where elite class start list (same course) is divided on foreigners and those who fight for medals. Foreigners and non registered home runners start first and then registered runners. All classes are open for all, although we agree that in competitive sport you should be registered to have the right to compete in competitive classes. Maybe one day. In athletics they have a rule that foreigners can run national champs only if they are good enough.
4) World ranking points will not be counted in the closed championship.
Agree but in general we (small o countries) can run open/closed champs on one course. The only adjustment we do is a start list. If this is not acceptable than it is better to run champs without WRE status.
5) I will compete for a Swedish club and can also compete for a foreign club when I'm in the country. Lina Strand, who is competing for the Swedish club Gothenburg Goteborg, thinks SM relay should be subject to different rules.
I agree with Per Sundberg - First There are no international rules of association change.
I suppose the idea is to have a rule for registration of clubs within IOF. That would be good also for WREs and potentially Club rankings. If someone run for a two different clubs - no problem but you can get WRE points based only on registered club at IOF and a national medal based only on registered club at National federation.
What we have in common and which international rules can be good for all?
1) There should be a rule that you can not pick national medals anyway", says Lina Strand.
Agree. We have this system for ages. Only if you have national passport and you are registered within Slovenia club you can be a Slovenian champ. All sports use this system because runner gets a free medical services, club gets a few $ on local level and federation gets a few $ on national level for youth program.
2) I do not care if I get Czech champions or the like." Said William Lind
Agree. Do other people from other countries really care about being the Swedish champion? I always thought that people care more about beating Swedish runners on Swedish terrain on their national events!
3) The Nordic unions should work to ensure that all national orienteering federations agreed to divide the national championships in two categories - open or closed.
Agree. We use a system where elite class start list (same course) is divided on foreigners and those who fight for medals. Foreigners and non registered home runners start first and then registered runners. All classes are open for all, although we agree that in competitive sport you should be registered to have the right to compete in competitive classes. Maybe one day. In athletics they have a rule that foreigners can run national champs only if they are good enough.
4) World ranking points will not be counted in the closed championship.
Agree but in general we (small o countries) can run open/closed champs on one course. The only adjustment we do is a start list. If this is not acceptable than it is better to run champs without WRE status.
5) I will compete for a Swedish club and can also compete for a foreign club when I'm in the country. Lina Strand, who is competing for the Swedish club Gothenburg Goteborg, thinks SM relay should be subject to different rules.
I agree with Per Sundberg - First There are no international rules of association change.
I suppose the idea is to have a rule for registration of clubs within IOF. That would be good also for WREs and potentially Club rankings. If someone run for a two different clubs - no problem but you can get WRE points based only on registered club at IOF and a national medal based only on registered club at National federation.
Feb 20, 2013 8:40 PM
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Gil:
Re #1, #2 and partially #3. Personally I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another. I can see both sides of the argument. However... There have been thread comparing orienteering to Golf, also considering constant discussion how to popularize orienteering I would take a page out of Golf where one of the most prestigious Golf events in the world are British Open, US Open. This is true in not just Golf - in tennis there is US Open, Australian Open, French Open.
Feb 21, 2013 11:15 AM
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About national/international eligibility rule. This issue was raised before
IOF FootO rule
WRE 5.5 The W21 and M21 classes shall be restricted to competitors classified as elite competitors by their Federation or who are selected for the class based on their position in a Federation’s ranking scheme.
WRE - Entries
Organisers should allow easy entry by individuals a s well as by groups as it is recognised that entries are usually made by clubs/groups in some countries
and by individuals in others. Provision should be made for entry by both methods.
WRE - Start list
Sometimes a Federation chooses its National Championships for a WRE. This is acceptable provided that the event is truly “open”, in particular, that a “foreign” competitor is treated no differently from a “home” competitor when the Start lists are drawn up.
EXAMPLE
A lot of countries apply their NC events for WRE and WRE rule take priority over local rules. WRE is an official IOF international event. WRE is open to individuals (?) and organiser and EA doesn't have any IOF official database to check if runners are registered runners in each country.
FootO rule and WRE rule are now in conflict. I think that a rule "shall be restricted to competitors classified as elite competitors by their Federation" should be part of organizer/EA tasks based on registered runners database within IOF.
Each runner who wants to run WREs/and gets Points should be registered before the WRE event and not after! This is normal registration process on national level but not on international level. Any serious sports have international registration process - runner's license. Individual athlete without Federation’s membership should not be eligible to start at WREs.
I also think that one runner should have a chance to become a champion only in one country and be able to represent only one club in one year. I think this is important if we really want to promote Elite otherwise National champs and WREs are just another recreational race for everyone who wants to try Elite.
IOF FootO rule
WRE 5.5 The W21 and M21 classes shall be restricted to competitors classified as elite competitors by their Federation or who are selected for the class based on their position in a Federation’s ranking scheme.
WRE - Entries
Organisers should allow easy entry by individuals a s well as by groups as it is recognised that entries are usually made by clubs/groups in some countries
and by individuals in others. Provision should be made for entry by both methods.
WRE - Start list
Sometimes a Federation chooses its National Championships for a WRE. This is acceptable provided that the event is truly “open”, in particular, that a “foreign” competitor is treated no differently from a “home” competitor when the Start lists are drawn up.
EXAMPLE
A lot of countries apply their NC events for WRE and WRE rule take priority over local rules. WRE is an official IOF international event. WRE is open to individuals (?) and organiser and EA doesn't have any IOF official database to check if runners are registered runners in each country.
FootO rule and WRE rule are now in conflict. I think that a rule "shall be restricted to competitors classified as elite competitors by their Federation" should be part of organizer/EA tasks based on registered runners database within IOF.
Each runner who wants to run WREs/and gets Points should be registered before the WRE event and not after! This is normal registration process on national level but not on international level. Any serious sports have international registration process - runner's license. Individual athlete without Federation’s membership should not be eligible to start at WREs.
I also think that one runner should have a chance to become a champion only in one country and be able to represent only one club in one year. I think this is important if we really want to promote Elite otherwise National champs and WREs are just another recreational race for everyone who wants to try Elite.
Feb 22, 2013 10:23 AM
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It is not allowed the same calendar year to compete for a national championship both in Sweden and in other countries.
This is possible because most other countries allow participation, either in the regular class or out of competition - both of which entails washing in Sweden.
I looked into new SWE rules and I can't understand why this rule is so important to Swedes? How other championships can really be a factor to crown a Swedish citizen for a Swedish champion?
- We have open championships
- Foreigners and unregistered home runners run first
- Foreigners can compete under home or foreign club name but they can't become a champion
- Unregistered home runners can't become a champion
- Home runners can compete under foreign club name but they can't become a champion (I think UCI has a better rule / at our National cycling champs also home cyclists; citizenship/foreign club can become a national champion)
- For foreigners our national championship is a normal recreational/training race.
This is possible because most other countries allow participation, either in the regular class or out of competition - both of which entails washing in Sweden.
I looked into new SWE rules and I can't understand why this rule is so important to Swedes? How other championships can really be a factor to crown a Swedish citizen for a Swedish champion?
- We have open championships
- Foreigners and unregistered home runners run first
- Foreigners can compete under home or foreign club name but they can't become a champion
- Unregistered home runners can't become a champion
- Home runners can compete under foreign club name but they can't become a champion (I think UCI has a better rule / at our National cycling champs also home cyclists; citizenship/foreign club can become a national champion)
- For foreigners our national championship is a normal recreational/training race.
Feb 22, 2013 10:23 AM
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What can we learn from Athletics. Are we there yet?
- Athlete can't register for foreign club by himself.
- If he wish to do he need to ask national federation to manage this process.
- Athlete can be register and compete only for one club.
- IAAF Competition Rules - Rule 4 and Rule 5 (p. 22-25)
Swedes can't solve this problem alone. This is a question for IOF and members.
- Can we allow runners to compete for two different clubs on national/international events in different countries without any regulation?
- What are their obligations/rights and what are clubs/national federations obligations/rights?
- Athlete can't register for foreign club by himself.
- If he wish to do he need to ask national federation to manage this process.
- Athlete can be register and compete only for one club.
- IAAF Competition Rules - Rule 4 and Rule 5 (p. 22-25)
Swedes can't solve this problem alone. This is a question for IOF and members.
- Can we allow runners to compete for two different clubs on national/international events in different countries without any regulation?
- What are their obligations/rights and what are clubs/national federations obligations/rights?
This discussion thread is closed.