Discussion: World Cup orienteering race today in NZ!
in: Orienteering; General
Jan 5, 2013 5:34 PM
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The WC Middle Distance race at the Oceania Carnival in New Zealand is today (starts at 4PM US EST I think, which is actually 10 AM local tomorrow :) Looks like there might be some live results online.
Matt Scott (DVOA, lives in NZ) is running for the US, and it looks like he drew the first start today. Will Critchley and Carol Ross (CAN) round out the North American reps. Later this week there are two more WC races - Sprint then Long.
Matt Scott (DVOA, lives in NZ) is running for the US, and it looks like he drew the first start today. Will Critchley and Carol Ross (CAN) round out the North American reps. Later this week there are two more WC races - Sprint then Long.
Jan 5, 2013 5:50 PM
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You might remember Matt from this roadside billboard in PA for NAOC:
Mike Minium
Jan 5, 2013 11:49 PM
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bubo:
M21: 1) Fabian Hertner, SUI 2) Johan Runesson, SWE 3) Jerker Lysell, SWE
Olav Lundanes, best time a minute ahead but mispunched a Control.
W21: 1) Helena Jansson, SWE 2) Ida Bobach, DEN 3) ??
Olav Lundanes, best time a minute ahead but mispunched a Control.
W21: 1) Helena Jansson, SWE 2) Ida Bobach, DEN 3) ??
Jan 6, 2013 12:05 AM
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Couldn't get flash upgraded on this machine (no permission), so I missed it all :(
Jan 6, 2013 4:22 AM
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Oleg:
W21: 1) Helena Jansson, SWE 2) Ida Bobach, DEN 3)Tanya Riabkina, RUS
http://www.oceania2013.co.nz/results_files/results...
http://www.oceania2013.co.nz/results_files/results...
Jan 6, 2013 9:12 PM
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Don't forget, more action today with the qualification round for the WC sprint starting 1pm NZ (summer) time. Top 40 go into the next day's final. Also the live results feed is being shifted to a hopefully more reliable server.
Jan 7, 2013 1:02 AM
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Sprint qual is underway now. The live results seem to be working nicely.
Jan 7, 2013 7:53 AM
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bubo:
A short video report from the Middle on World Cup TV.
No maps posted yet, but you´ll get a glimpse of it in the video.
I haven´t been able to follow any live results yet - lots of server problems apparently - but the live streaming video for the Middle worked OK.
Wrong time of day (or night) for me to follow Sprint Qual - only results I´ve seen so far include the Swedish runners here and the Norwegians here.
No maps posted yet, but you´ll get a glimpse of it in the video.
I haven´t been able to follow any live results yet - lots of server problems apparently - but the live streaming video for the Middle worked OK.
Wrong time of day (or night) for me to follow Sprint Qual - only results I´ve seen so far include the Swedish runners here and the Norwegians here.
Jan 7, 2013 7:58 AM
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bubo:
Nice report from the Middle on World of O.
I´m sure there will be more from the sprint later...
Sprint maps:
Part 1
Part 2
I´m sure there will be more from the sprint later...
Sprint maps:
Part 1
Part 2
Jan 7, 2013 9:16 AM
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women's final starting from 1000 (NZ) tomorrow, men from 1050, then Oceania sprint champs to follow throughout the afternoon. Fantastic action at today's venue, tomorrow will struggle to match it for excitement I think!
Jan 7, 2013 9:03 PM
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I'm seeing something live on the day4 link, but nothing on the day5 link.
Jan 7, 2013 9:37 PM
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Times a bit long for the women so far. Results server is up and down a bit, but mostly up. Vid is nice.
Jan 7, 2013 9:48 PM
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reloading the live results page periodically gets a connection to the server.
Jan 7, 2013 9:53 PM
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Looks like a several min delay between the vid and live results. Live results are ahead. Announcers predicting finish results when they're already posted as finished.
Jan 7, 2013 10:02 PM
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Looks like the final result is Tove, Helena, Lizzie, Lüscher, Wigemyr, Friederich, Riabkina, Bobach, Wyder, Niemi
Jan 7, 2013 10:36 PM
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Lassen still leading, Merz coming on fast though. Merz, Muller and kyburz actually. Its the Swiss wave...
Jan 7, 2013 10:47 PM
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Looks like final for the men is:
M. Kyburz(SUI)
Lysell (SWE)
Merz (SUI)
Muller (SUI)
Lundanes (NOR)
Lassen (DEN)
Huber (SUI)
A. Kyburz (SUI)
Hubmann (SUI)
Hertner (SUI)
M. Kyburz(SUI)
Lysell (SWE)
Merz (SUI)
Muller (SUI)
Lundanes (NOR)
Lassen (DEN)
Huber (SUI)
A. Kyburz (SUI)
Hubmann (SUI)
Hertner (SUI)
Jan 7, 2013 10:59 PM
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bubo:
Never got any live results from o-lynx (haven't seen it at all since the races started).
Video coverage and speaker have worked OK - although a bit messy during the last part of the Women´s race...
PS. Eddie, which country is DWE??
PPS. Great to see Tove win and Jerker on the podium (and in the total World Cup lead)
Video coverage and speaker have worked OK - although a bit messy during the last part of the Women´s race...
PS. Eddie, which country is DWE??
PPS. Great to see Tove win and Jerker on the podium (and in the total World Cup lead)
Jan 7, 2013 11:03 PM
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Fixed. I had to keep reloading the live results link. It would hang up in a number of different states. Just kept reloading and managed to sneak some peeks at the results throughout. Would have a connection for 1-2 mins every 5-10.
Jan 7, 2013 11:09 PM
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Yeah, the comments section of the livestream feed was the most reliable source of information. I think its very useful having someone on site just doing that simple text play-by-play.
Jan 7, 2013 11:13 PM
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bubo:
Agree, combined with the speaker and also the results board on the video it turned out OK for the men´s race. I wasn't quite prepared for the problems during the women's competition though, otherwise I would have taken notes then too.
Jan 8, 2013 7:19 PM
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Some pictures from the Middle - setup, and earlier finishers, before the camera card filled up, mostly taken by Sarah A.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vmeyer/sets/721576324...
And a few from the first couple of days - mostly setup, though look carefully at 082 and 083 (2nd and 3rd from the end). They were taken a a second or so apart.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vmeyer/sets/721576324...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vmeyer/sets/721576324...
And a few from the first couple of days - mostly setup, though look carefully at 082 and 083 (2nd and 3rd from the end). They were taken a a second or so apart.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vmeyer/sets/721576324...
Jan 9, 2013 2:35 AM
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More photos on the Australian Orienteering Facebook Page
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/OrienteeringAu...
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/OrienteeringAu...
Jan 9, 2013 10:06 PM
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Attackpoint looks like it is for the aspirational orienteer! None of the 40 finalists in the World Cup Sprint (Men) are on AP (or claimed splits there anyway), while 30% of the non-finalists are.
The course was the same and the winner of the non-final, Toby Scott, had a time good enough for 20th in the Final.
Very interesting to compare the two using AP's common leg function. Also interesting to note that of the top 15 in the final AP only has two of them making mistakes - silver medallist Jerker Lysell (9 seconds) and Julian Dent (16 seconds).
The contrast isn't at all clear on the women's side.
The course was the same and the winner of the non-final, Toby Scott, had a time good enough for 20th in the Final.
Very interesting to compare the two using AP's common leg function. Also interesting to note that of the top 15 in the final AP only has two of them making mistakes - silver medallist Jerker Lysell (9 seconds) and Julian Dent (16 seconds).
The contrast isn't at all clear on the women's side.
Jan 9, 2013 11:11 PM
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bubo:
Just a guess (before looking it up) - AP:ers come from AUS, NZE, CAN, USA, GBR, i.e. mainly English speaking countries.
It's not very common in Europe as a whole - and with SWE, NOR, DEN (+ of course SUI) making up a large chunk of the finalists it's not surprising since very few Scandis or Swiss are on AP.
PS. After looking it up - I'm pretty sure the Brits (GG, Crane, Strain...) running the sprint final are on AP as are some of the Aussies...
It's not very common in Europe as a whole - and with SWE, NOR, DEN (+ of course SUI) making up a large chunk of the finalists it's not surprising since very few Scandis or Swiss are on AP.
PS. After looking it up - I'm pretty sure the Brits (GG, Crane, Strain...) running the sprint final are on AP as are some of the Aussies...
Jan 10, 2013 12:59 AM
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They may not have logged in the last week (can imagine it might not be the highest priority) but gristwood, strain, crane, dent, uphill at least have logs. may be others. i might even get round to checking the list as seeing if there are more.
Jan 10, 2013 1:14 AM
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Ross Morrison and Matt Ogden both used AP logs very briefly around 2007-2008.
I can't be bothered searching the rest of the list for logs I couldn't read anyway ;)
I reckon Bubo's pretty close to the mark. I think those listed above are a fair representation of the best orienteers from their countries.
I can't be bothered searching the rest of the list for logs I couldn't read anyway ;)
I reckon Bubo's pretty close to the mark. I think those listed above are a fair representation of the best orienteers from their countries.
Jan 12, 2013 10:07 PM
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bubo:
Results from Middle Prologue, World Cup in NZE.
Chase start 3 PM in NZE - what ever that translates to in other parts of the World. It´s an uncomfortable 3 AM in Sweden though...
Chase start 3 PM in NZE - what ever that translates to in other parts of the World. It´s an uncomfortable 3 AM in Sweden though...
Jan 13, 2013 5:46 AM
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Rats, I missed the action today. Too busy watching the Ravens upset Denver!! Ouuuhhh YEAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 13, 2013 7:36 AM
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bubo:
...and still nothing to be found on the official pages or World of O, but:
Here you can see what happened...
Women: Tove, Ann-Margrethe. Minna
Men: Jerker, Olav, Peter
PS. Didn´t follow the live reports but managed to see a bit of it later.
Here you can see what happened...
Women: Tove, Ann-Margrethe. Minna
Men: Jerker, Olav, Peter
PS. Didn´t follow the live reports but managed to see a bit of it later.
Jan 14, 2013 9:36 PM
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Although not part of the WC Valerie Meyer, Rick Worner and I were there...very impressive races although very tough physically. Will try to post some pictures but Valerie will probably be able to do that before I can.
Jan 14, 2013 11:05 PM
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Race discussion available at worldofo, and full results available from oceania2013.
Jan 15, 2013 8:50 PM
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The future of WOC?
"- Lundanes did the orienteering. I run behind and tried to save as much energy as possible for the sprint finish, Lysell explained his race tactics to orientering.se"
Hubmann posted this nice pic.
"- Lundanes did the orienteering. I run behind and tried to save as much energy as possible for the sprint finish, Lysell explained his race tactics to orientering.se"
Hubmann posted this nice pic.
Jan 15, 2013 10:46 PM
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No, clearly not. You have left out a couple of crucial factors - there was a prologue in which Lundanes only finished 6 seconds ahead of Lysell. Lundanes also gained a "bonus" 15 seconds ahead of Lysell for finishing in third place in the prologue. So Lundanes started 21 seconds ahead in the chase start, which wasn't enough.
So this was not a mass start race where everybody started at the same time on the same course as implied.
Relays have always been mass start races and sprint finishes are commonplace - unless you want to gaffle the finish control??
Also it is extremely unlikely that a WOC chase start race would be conducted in open terrain like this.
So this was not a mass start race where everybody started at the same time on the same course as implied.
Relays have always been mass start races and sprint finishes are commonplace - unless you want to gaffle the finish control??
Also it is extremely unlikely that a WOC chase start race would be conducted in open terrain like this.
Jan 16, 2013 2:44 PM
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O-ing, you have left out a couple of crucial factors.
I certainly didn't intend to imply this was mass-start, and don't see how it can be inferred. We have start intervals at WOC Middle/Long for a reason, to encourage and reward independent orienteering. The Chase format gives good independent orienteers a slight advantage starting the chase, but the Chase wipes it out (at least in this terrain).
Relays are gaffled. Relays are longer, heading for two hours. There are fewer competitive teams, and more gaffels than possible in a middle, so independent orienteering is more important, and the capacity for following less. Way more happens in a relay, and that makes it more exciting.
I wouldn't actually consider it extremely unlikely, given the IOF penchant... Open terrain makes for better visibility (although perhaps a less exciting race) and cheaper camerawork.
I certainly didn't intend to imply this was mass-start, and don't see how it can be inferred. We have start intervals at WOC Middle/Long for a reason, to encourage and reward independent orienteering. The Chase format gives good independent orienteers a slight advantage starting the chase, but the Chase wipes it out (at least in this terrain).
Relays are gaffled. Relays are longer, heading for two hours. There are fewer competitive teams, and more gaffels than possible in a middle, so independent orienteering is more important, and the capacity for following less. Way more happens in a relay, and that makes it more exciting.
I wouldn't actually consider it extremely unlikely, given the IOF penchant... Open terrain makes for better visibility (although perhaps a less exciting race) and cheaper camerawork.
Jan 16, 2013 5:28 PM
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bubo:
Re: Sit 'n kick
Whether it´s "nice", "ethical" or whatever isn´t so much the point here in my opinion. When you have a mass start or as in this case a chase start it´s part of the game and totally legitimate.
If this format is what IOF (or whichever the legislating bodies are - we are all a part of it) wants that is also what they will get
Whether it´s "nice", "ethical" or whatever isn´t so much the point here in my opinion. When you have a mass start or as in this case a chase start it´s part of the game and totally legitimate.
If this format is what IOF (or whichever the legislating bodies are - we are all a part of it) wants that is also what they will get
Jan 16, 2013 11:04 PM
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Gernot Kerschbaumer has a better picture and story on his blog
Independent orienteering is, in my view, the best form, and truest to the spirit of orienteering. Which is why we actually need longer start intervals in Long and Middle races so that groups don't form as easily.
As much as you might want to gaffle relays it is often the case that several runners will have the same combination. And once they do then head-to-head race tactics become a vital, different and exciting part of the sport. Mass start and chase races seek to capitalise on that aspect and we should welcome it.
Independent orienteering is, in my view, the best form, and truest to the spirit of orienteering. Which is why we actually need longer start intervals in Long and Middle races so that groups don't form as easily.
As much as you might want to gaffle relays it is often the case that several runners will have the same combination. And once they do then head-to-head race tactics become a vital, different and exciting part of the sport. Mass start and chase races seek to capitalise on that aspect and we should welcome it.
Jan 17, 2013 7:13 AM
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When Billygoat last time tested with similar elite field like this chase start? Would it still be awesome? Sit'n kickers could simply follow Olav right from the start, right? Any long mass start race is awesome if field is right (not plenty of equally stong elite orienteers).
Jan 17, 2013 11:00 AM
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First across the line races are what they are. The winner needs a certain combination of skills. "Just" come across a 35sec gap to the leader? Good luck to anyone here on that one!
"Sit and kick" is always a possible tactic but it's up to the organisers to make it possible to use others, like "Crush the opposition in the prologue" (Tove Andersson) or break clear during the chase. To enable the last you need:
Longer legs with route choice.
Lower visibility.
Controls which the leader can find as quickly as the follower.
Gaffling/splitting.
As long as we have classic and middle to test a different balance of skills, its all good. More concerning is the drift towards those events favouring "Wait and Sit" tactics. 3 mins down "Wait and sit" will get you a WOC medal... and the proposal seems to be to go to 2 mins.
"Sit and kick" is always a possible tactic but it's up to the organisers to make it possible to use others, like "Crush the opposition in the prologue" (Tove Andersson) or break clear during the chase. To enable the last you need:
Longer legs with route choice.
Lower visibility.
Controls which the leader can find as quickly as the follower.
Gaffling/splitting.
As long as we have classic and middle to test a different balance of skills, its all good. More concerning is the drift towards those events favouring "Wait and Sit" tactics. 3 mins down "Wait and sit" will get you a WOC medal... and the proposal seems to be to go to 2 mins.
Jan 17, 2013 3:23 PM
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This should have been common knowledge and practice, at least ten years ago, but apparently we are still un-inventing the wheel, even at the world class level.
Worth repeating-
Longer legs with route choice.
Lower visibility.
Controls which the leader can find as quickly as the follower.
Gaffling/splitting.
Graeme, thanks for some sanity.
Worth repeating-
Longer legs with route choice.
Lower visibility.
Controls which the leader can find as quickly as the follower.
Gaffling/splitting.
Graeme, thanks for some sanity.
This discussion thread is closed.