Discussion: GPS Sportswatch On Kickstarter
in: Orienteering; General
Jan 3, 2013 11:44 PM
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In case anyone is interested in something other than a garmin, here is the latest concept, which you can be a part of!
I'm not involved in this at all, just saw it and thought I'd spread the love :)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/903141699/leik...
I'm not involved in this at all, just saw it and thought I'd spread the love :)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/903141699/leik...
Jan 4, 2013 12:14 AM
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To be devil's advocate... how much more do I get from a uniformly green-colored OpenStreetMap than I get from a grey Garmin screen? We're currently blessed with decent trail coverage for OSM in the SF Bay Area, but in most other places there's not much. The other problem is that OSM by design cannot display any kind of elevation data (contours or shaded relief), so there's not a lot of entertainment value to the map screen unless you are in a city.
On the other end, in the U.S. I can get a free phone with about 3 hours of battery life, more if I only turn on the GPS and turn off the map tile downloads. If I pay about $200, I get battery life that exceeds the 6 hours that they claim. And granted it's bulkier, but it comes with my choice of a logging app and I can even make (useless) voice calls and take (bad) pictures.
P.S. I wish them luck—their timeline is entirely unrealistic for a hardware product.
On the other end, in the U.S. I can get a free phone with about 3 hours of battery life, more if I only turn on the GPS and turn off the map tile downloads. If I pay about $200, I get battery life that exceeds the 6 hours that they claim. And granted it's bulkier, but it comes with my choice of a logging app and I can even make (useless) voice calls and take (bad) pictures.
P.S. I wish them luck—their timeline is entirely unrealistic for a hardware product.
Jan 4, 2013 1:38 AM
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To devil your devil's advocate...maybe this kind of thing is what OSM needs to really get mass-market appeal: a feedback loop from the user to the maps and back again. While I'm a big fan of OSM, it's not necessarily easy to take it out in the field with you. I'm surprised you didn't mention the biggest potential flaw of the unit - TFT screens are generally terrible in daylight compared to conventional B&W LCD units.
I'm curious how they store the OSM data onboard - vector format would be awesome just for the amount of data you could hold on it, but the processing requirements go through the roof.
While I'd agree that their timeline is unrealistic for a typical Kickstarter project, some of these guys are ex-Nokia R&D so presumably they've got a fair bit of experience at prototyping electronics.
I do find it interesting that they thought existing GPS watches were 'too bulky', and then produced something with a screen 30% wider than an FR 910... :)
I'm curious how they store the OSM data onboard - vector format would be awesome just for the amount of data you could hold on it, but the processing requirements go through the roof.
While I'd agree that their timeline is unrealistic for a typical Kickstarter project, some of these guys are ex-Nokia R&D so presumably they've got a fair bit of experience at prototyping electronics.
I do find it interesting that they thought existing GPS watches were 'too bulky', and then produced something with a screen 30% wider than an FR 910... :)
Jan 4, 2013 3:59 AM
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Well, what's the feedback from a non-technical, not-necessarily-cartogtaphy-enjoying user to OSM in this model? And if you do enjoy cartography, you'll still have to download the track to a laptop to edit it and upload.
As to the screen, at my other job we really like Pixel Qi; it or something similar (kind of a TFT/e-ink hybrid) is more than adequate to display a limited number of colors (= OSM) under any brightness conditions, and its power consumption is ~40% of that of a TFT (less with more ambient light).
As to the screen, at my other job we really like Pixel Qi; it or something similar (kind of a TFT/e-ink hybrid) is more than adequate to display a limited number of colors (= OSM) under any brightness conditions, and its power consumption is ~40% of that of a TFT (less with more ambient light).
Jan 4, 2013 4:34 AM
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For someone not interested in cartography, of course there's no feedback - that's not what I meant. For those that are interested in cartography, or the philosophy of open data in general, this kind of kit is useful because it closes the loop and actually makes OSM *useful*.
Currently, OSM is kinda a one-way street. If I go out riding, download my GPS trace, upload that to OSM and add some new tracks, then....that's the end of it. The map looks better/more detailed/more interesting on my computer screen, but I don't really get anything out of that. I could print off a copy next time I go riding, but then I have to carry a paper map, follow my position and...then I might as well be an orienteer and run around the bush in funny pants.
It's hard to make use of the data, until I get back to my computer, download another trace, upload that to OSM and...further "improve the map". The only motivation is to improve the map in pursuit of some esoteric perfection because I'm a compulsive mapping nerd.
If I can carry an OSM map on my GPS, I get all the benefits of having real map data with my real position, but I also have the motivation (and the ability) to improve that data using the GPS, and then I can load new data onto the GPS and go riding again. Voila - feedback loop.
Most people get annoyed when their TomTom (or iPhone *chuckle*) has incorrect map data, but you generally can't do anything about it except make snide remarks on Twitter. This kind of kit (not necessarily the Liekr, but the concept) starts to change that.
Currently, OSM is kinda a one-way street. If I go out riding, download my GPS trace, upload that to OSM and add some new tracks, then....that's the end of it. The map looks better/more detailed/more interesting on my computer screen, but I don't really get anything out of that. I could print off a copy next time I go riding, but then I have to carry a paper map, follow my position and...then I might as well be an orienteer and run around the bush in funny pants.
It's hard to make use of the data, until I get back to my computer, download another trace, upload that to OSM and...further "improve the map". The only motivation is to improve the map in pursuit of some esoteric perfection because I'm a compulsive mapping nerd.
If I can carry an OSM map on my GPS, I get all the benefits of having real map data with my real position, but I also have the motivation (and the ability) to improve that data using the GPS, and then I can load new data onto the GPS and go riding again. Voila - feedback loop.
Most people get annoyed when their TomTom (or iPhone *chuckle*) has incorrect map data, but you generally can't do anything about it except make snide remarks on Twitter. This kind of kit (not necessarily the Liekr, but the concept) starts to change that.
Jan 5, 2013 11:10 AM
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Ifor:
The fact that the Motoactv looks to of died as a project is not promising.
The screen at 320-240 brings it into the space where you could probobly get an Android implementation going. it looks to have the rest of the nessasary hardware. Then it would be interesting as you could get a far bigger choice of software.... My app IpBike with direct upload to Attackpoint for a start...
The screen at 320-240 brings it into the space where you could probobly get an Android implementation going. it looks to have the rest of the nessasary hardware. Then it would be interesting as you could get a far bigger choice of software.... My app IpBike with direct upload to Attackpoint for a start...
Jan 7, 2013 6:02 PM
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...making a kickstarter hardware project even less promising, I'd have thought, but fair point about the moto. Just seems that this will get overtaken or outdone before it takes off, if there is in fact a market.
And cheers for the link to the app; looks nice and I'll give it a go.
And cheers for the link to the app; looks nice and I'll give it a go.
Jan 8, 2013 12:27 AM
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"OSM by design cannot display any kind of elevation data"
That is not true. Check out TopOSM and Stamens terrain map.
That is not true. Check out TopOSM and Stamens terrain map.
Jan 8, 2013 6:37 AM
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TopOSM is stale. It uses cached OSM data, in some cases months or over a year old. Zoom is limited; contour interval is fixed. And to the best of my observational capabilities, it cannot or does not use the only correct publicly available DEM dataset in the United States, USGS NED 1/9". Overlaying NED 1/9" over up-to-date OSM must be a difficult problem.
Stamens terrain map... well... no comment. Where are the contours?
Stamens terrain map... well... no comment. Where are the contours?
Jan 8, 2013 3:25 PM
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Ifor:
The contour information is not coming from OSM but from another source and then being put together with the OSM data. The end result is of course that you get OSM data with contours. The new library I intergrated into IpBike the other week is an offline rendering system from a prepared merged OSM and contour file this has 20m contours which is not great but I have the whole of the UK in a 600mb file on the SD card with detail down to the house numbers which is rather impressive.
This discussion thread is closed.