Discussion: Condes and logos

If you have sponsor logos, etc., and want to print them on your map, what is the best way to do this? Condes doesn't accept vector art, does it? (Which means you get fuzzy edges from importing .jpegs or the like.)

Can you import vector art into OCAD?

Please excuse my abject ignorance. I really haven't done much with this stuff.

Depending on how complex the logo is, I usually convert sponsor logos into OCAD symbols - this is a lot easier if you can get hold of the logo in vector form (.ai, .eps) and import it, but at a pinch you can load a raster image and trace the bugger using simple OCAD symbols.

Once converted you then can then easily resize it, and can if you store each logo in a separate OCAD file you can easily import them into event maps.

The only thing this doesn't really work for is logos with lots of colours, or graduated colour changes.

I think J-J once offered to help convert logos to 0CAD... don't know if that offer still holds.

Get your sponsor to send you a high res image and just load it in Condes. Hi res, no fuzz.

We (Get Lost!! and terraloco) do all final production in Photoshop precisely because it's hard to handle logos in OCAD and Condes. (Maybe it's easier in OCAD 10.) We export the map, sans the logos, as a bitmap at a high resolution (600–1000 dpi), then add the logos in Photoshop. The quality is sufficient for an ISSOM Sprint or a Street Scramble. Depending on your printing method, you may be able to get away with it even for a 1:10k ISOM map with fine rock detail. In particular, we've had good outcomes when we matched the export dpi value with an inkjet's native resolution; a mismatch can be seen on say 0.07 mm ISSOM borders, but not on 0.12 mm lines.

If you have Illustrator, and know how to work it, and the logos are vectors, you should probably go that way instead of Photoshop. I think Ed Despard has done this.

Yeah, I can convert logos to 0CAD, depending on what they look like. Makes more sense for things that will be used more than once (like club logos), and I can't do things that are overly complex (like photos), but if you want to show me what you're looking at, I can tell you whether it's easy enough. (And if this is for the NAOCs, I'd volunteer to do it, because I feel slightly overcompensated for the stuff I did before for you guys. And I could turn this around more quickly, assuming it's feasible.)

I've had no issues with hi res logos in Condes. And I'm picky. I don't see the need for all that extra work.

I use Inkscape (free vector graphics software) for the RRS Adventure Runs. I took the OCAD map file converted to PDF, loaded in Inkscape, where I did all of the graphic design stuff.

But I did this mainly because I know how to import graphics into Inkscape lot better than I do importing graphics into OCAD.

A related issue. Except that what I want to place on the map isn't logos, but legends and other formatting stuff.

I'm maintaining a large ISSOM orienteering map of the UCB campus, which is too large to print conveniently, and so we often crop it down to a small area, which prints nicely on a single legal-sized sheet. For asthetic reasons, I don't just want to cut out a rectangular chunk. I'd like to cut out a specific shape that follows the natural boundaries of the campus, and then overlay the legend, title, north lines, etc...

Write now, I do this by exporting a "partial map" from OCAD, and then merging this partial map with another OCAD file than includes all the legend and other markups. This is a rather clunky process, and it has version control issues when multiple course setters and mappers get involved (if people make changes to the partial map, then I have to replicate these changes on the master map and/or layout template).

Is there a better way I could be doing this?

Would it be possible to open that large map file as template. Then draw with white area symbol to mask the part you want to be erased, then add your legends and stuff on those white areas. If you need to make changes you just open the big file and make changes there. I can't say would that work with all course planning applications, I haven't tried.

I do what Jagge suggests, since we often print event maps on A4, but the masters are A3 or bigger - maintain one master map, then for each event you create a new file, load the master map as a background, and then mask off what you don't want and add pretty things around the edges.

It works VERY nicely if you're exporting EPS (or raster) files to be used in your course-planning software (eg. Corpse, Condes(?) ), but doesn't work at all in Purple Pen - it doesn't understand the OCAD-within-OCAD thing, and won't display the actual map.

I do the same thing as Juffy - using Condes. The pretty things I add include logos, scale bars, "magnetic north" arrow, legends, to name a few. These can all be jpg files (or perhaps other types of graphics files) or even other OCAD files (eg: I have a standard legend in a separate OCAD file that I often import into Condes.

This is very quick and simple to do. I keep a checklist of all the adornments I need and have a folder in which I collect these things over time.

Maybe to make it simpler--does anyone have an OCAD version of the IOF logo?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gs0n2cols5xrbre/IOF.ocd

Not made into a point symbol, because OCAD's symbol system doesn't want to play nice. But here's the shapes & colours. :)

Neat--thanks!

@Juffy: Thanks as we'll need that for next year too.

Would be great if there could be a free clipart logo set available for map design.

Alternative versions of the IOF logo available from http://orienteering.org/images/main.php

IOF 50 year logo here
http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01...

If somebody wants to deal with distributing (or hosting) a clipart set, I have a bunch of logos, scales, etc. that I could contribute.

(One advantage of vector logos in 0CAD is that, if they're done correctly, they can be scaled arbitrarily without loss of quality.)

Isn't there a google app for that ;-(

It would be awesome to have such a clipart set

BTW, OCAD 11 seems to have a neat functionality to automatically "import" background art like logos and convert it into OCAD objects. I have no idea whether this is a standard function or not, but I was able to use it to perfectly port over the needed logos. And, I've never used OCAD and am not really good at that stuff. I basically just was clicking on things like a chimpanzee.

Getting the logos into OCAD is an ideal situation in my mind.

Try to convert the COF logo! ;)

Well, that one may be a bit much...

Anybody got a high-quality version of it? Looks like it may be impractical based on the small version on the web page, but I'd need to see it in more detail to be sure.

Oh now that logo looks like FUN. :)


...but yeah, original vector art or GTFO.

Well, COF has two versions of the logo. There's the one from the twitter account, which would be easily convertible to vector graphics, if it wasn't created there already (my guess is that it was).


And then there's the one with crazy detail, which is was done in raster (it's gotta be, right?), instead of vector.

Does anybody know if there's an 0CAD version of the simpler one? If not, I'll go ahead and draft it up, because there should be.

OCAD question. I was just looking at the OUSA logo in OCAD, and I noticed the text ("Orienteering USA") is in vector format (basically, drawn with bezier curves and whatnot). I'm guessing that is because it was imported from some other package, like Illustrator.

Is there any way in OCAD to convert OCAD text to drawn objects? I want the logo to be scalable as a unit, and if I use OCAD text, I have to change the text size every time I resize the logo.

Finally, I'm assuming there is no way in OCAD to convert text to drawn objects (other than by hand), so---Is there a free solution to get nicely kerned text in a drawn object form that is easily importable into OCAD?

You can convert text to drawing very easily. Just select the text, then press the "to graphics" icon. (Looks like a little pencil).

Sweet. I didn't know that. Thanks!

I noticed the text ("Orienteering USA") is in vector format.

Everyone who has a copy of the O-USA logo has it with the text drawn as paths, as opposed to text using a font file. This way, everyone gets the same exact logo. Otherwise, if you had a copy of the logo but you didn't have the font file (Helvetica) installed, the image file would default to some other non-intended font.

When I created the logo in Inkscape, I converted all text to paths, and that was that. FYI, I still have a copy of the file with editable text, but I don't see the need to distribute it.

So, Inkscape is free? Do you recommend it? I was hoping for a little more control with the kerning, and it looks like Inkscape can do that.

Inkscape is freeware, yes, and can create .pdf, .eps, .svg, as well as some others that I've never used. You can also export in raster formats, too (.png) in whatever resolution you want.

I've used Inkscape for all of the logos, t-shirts, and jerseys I've designed. Heck, I've done the importing the other way 'round. I'll save an OCAD map as a .pdf and import into Inkscape to do a graphics overlay. (There's also the orienteering mapping plug-in for Inkscape that I've yet to try. I'll get around to it one of these days....)

Inkscape allows for easy kerning (I manually kern most of my artwork). Once your text cursor is in the right spot, I think it's Alt + arrow keys. I don't have Inkscape on this computer to verify.

Once you're done with the text, make sure to convert to paths (it should be in the path menu up top), and then save in whatever file format that can be imported into OCAD.

(Guy, I'll save you the trouble of asking. Kerning.)

Luckily Guy isn't omnipresent. But, he will probably sense his name somewhere and turn up.

I use Inkscape to vectorize the Susquehanna Stumble towel artwork for silkscreening. Our vendor likes .svg or .eps, otherwise they charge extra to convert from raster for you. I can recommend it.

@pink: Believe it or not, I already knew what kerning was -- and that wiki page confirmed it. :-)

@j-man: I regularly check most updated threads -- at least until I get tired of reading kofols' tomes. :-D

(I hope my mention of kerning kept this post on-topic...)

The conversion of text to graphics is important, and I do it for all 0CAD logos that I draft, although I sometimes leave the text in there (hidden) in case a change needs to get made in the future. In that case I'd be able to un-hide the text, type the corrections, and convert to graphics again.

I'd say at least half the time I'm doing a logo, it uses a font for which I can't find a close enough match. In those cases, I draw all the letters by hand, which isn't too bad once you get good at it.

You can convert text to drawing very easily. Just select the text, then press the "to graphics" icon. (Looks like a little pencil).

...oh wow. I never knew that. Do you know how many hours I've spent tracing text into graphics so that OCAD would happily make point symbols from it? *bangs head*

*starts the Official Blegg Fanclub*

On kerning.

Its even a game!

repeated resizing can result in distortions of some small objects (like letters) especially if you have gone very small at some stage. So I keep all logos, etc in a file with the text still as text objects (assuming I have the font). when I want to use it in a map I copy the logo in the same file, convert the text to objects then import into the map file and resize as required.

Ooooh, that game was fun. Except that I learned that I'm not perfect at kerning lowercase letters underneath uppercase letters with arms.

Kerning appears to be the underlying principle of those annoying "captcha" challenges.

To avoid distortions, I just keep the original versions of the logos on hand, drafted large. Distortion due to resizing can affect all objects, not just graphicized text.

@p in k soc ks, me too!

Here's my problem: I have a nice layout drafted in OCAD 9. As background files I have: a legend, the cropped map, the sponsor logos, the club logo. In ocas, when I open my layout everything else opens nicely and I have a great looking map. When I go to Condes and I select my layout all I get is the barebones layout: no logos, no map, no legend. Any suggestions on how to get it to all appear?

Condes does not support the OCAD Background map feature...

I actually do the layout of the logos in Condes

This is what the canvases are really useful for in Condes - different courses can have different layouts quite easily

I think your choices at this point might be either to somehow flatten the OCAD file into one map file, or do the layout again but in Condes.

Step 1: Create backup copies of your ocad files
Step 2: Open the ocad layout file
Step 3: Remove all background files
Step 4: Import the ocad map file
Step 5: Save new ocad file with both layout and map in one file (minus raster logos)
Step 6: In Condes, set your canvas to the new ocad file
Step 7: Re-open and position all raster image logos in Condes

OCAD 11 has a "Layout" function which smartens up the "cover-up" tricks described above.

One relatively simple solution:
Export your condes courses as ocad files, import then into the ocad map, and print directly from ocad.

I got it to work by following pl.'s suggestion above and then using the graphics feature in Condes for the logos.

Once we are past the event, next weekend, I'll try Mike's suggestion as well as that suggested by graver to see how they go. Thanks for the ideas.