Discussion: Backup timing

What (if anything) do Attackpointers use for backup timing (cf rule 23.9)? Has anyone tried motion sensing security cameras?

One thing I've seen used recently is a digital video camera running constantly for the whole event. It would take a bit of work to recover the finish times if it were needed, but that chances that there would be a call for that is low. When I saw it done, the camera was running from the same power source as the finish line computer, but if the failure were the power source itself, then the camera would presumably be able to continue to run on batteries, at least long enough for somebody to move into position with a watch and a clipboard.

I use the video camera as J-J describes. I think it has a 6-8 hour battery in case of power failure. At big meets, I like the paper and pencil as an additional backup. Of course, our "big" meets are likely under 500, so hand backup isn't too hard to do.

It was in fact vmeyer's video camera that I was referring to. :-)

We used a video camera that had a view of both the finish line and a digital race clock behind it. Camera had enough battery power and tape to last the finishing window of those it was needed for (only Elites in a WRE)

At the park world tour race we organised last year we used the finish line, clock and digital camera setup. We didn't need to use it though it would have been a bit fiddly had we needed to.
I don't think hand backup is worth it, but I also don't think any backup is really necessary for any event using SI that's not a WRE or similar.

We did the same at the British Champs and it's actually really nice to look through it eg when Tessa (W21E) winner finished she thanked the young junior she sprinted in with for making her run so fast at the end 'I think you just won me the British Champs!' she said, one day we (OJ) might event get round to editing it for youtube...

Would parallax be much of an issue if video-with-race clock had to be employed to determine actual finish times?

Well, it's probably easier to set up the camera to record the time as part of the image than to have a race clock in the picture. But what do you mean about parallax? That you won't be able to tell when someone is crossing the finish line? If that's the case, then the camera is poorly situated.

Yes -- but that would only be a problem if including the race clock were necessary.

So... put the camera where you can see the runners.
Put the race clock in the field of view of the camera.
And... what's the issue?

I said "race clock" because it is typically visible to the runner. If that is deemed unimportant, then there is no issue.

What sort of system failure are you backing up for?
If its for a crash of the computer system at the finish, then just use an SI printout box from the schools system to print splits. You can interrogate it with SIME and quickly recreate the results.
I suppose this wouldn't solve a failed SI finish box, but presumably that would be quickly detected and changed.

What sort of system failure are you backing up for?

Failure of an SI box at the finish - Orienteering Australia's requirement for A and B level competitions is "Two independent time keeping systems, a primary and a secondary, shall be used continuously throughout the competition. The timekeeping systems shall measure times of competitors in the same class, relative to each other, with an accuracy of 0.5 seconds or better".

The equivalent IOF rule applies to WOC/JWOC/World Cup, and is a recommendation only for WREs, so OA's rule seems to be fairly ambitious, and mostly ignored for B level competitions.

The video camera and clock system seems to be the accepted method, but whether it's accurate to .5 of a second is questionable. It would probably only be an issue in the rare instance of an SI finish box failure combined with a close result in a class (or a competitor choosing to test rule 23.5 and not bothering to self-time).