Discussion: training with snow

do you have any ideas of training with a map???

it's difficult if all the ground is covered in snow.

thanks for the ideas!

MVH Bendik

We have a winter orienteering series in southern Ontario, and it's lots of fun! It's actually very good map reading practice, because you need to be more vigilant and consider what might be different in winter. This critical thinking is a skill that is useful in all seasons, since vegetation and water levels change, and also when using older maps where some things may have changed over time.

For example, in winter, a small pond may look the same as a small open area. If no one has walked on a snowy trail, it might be hard to see, but if you know where it should be, you should see the opening in the forest. Different shades of green on the map may be less meaningful in deciduous forests in winter, but coniferous forests and thickets will be just as tough (or easy) to get through. You may not see small creeks or boulders at all.

On the other hand, there are some things you can still depend on - contours, roads, buildings, distinct trees, large watercourses, major trails, etc. - and the trick is to make judgement calls and route choices based on what information is most reliable. (And that's always a good thing to consider when making route choices in any season.)

in winter, a small pond may look the same as a small open area

Except that if you try to run across said open area, you may either crash through and get your feet wet, or have your feet fly out from under you so that you come crashing down on the back of your head (don't bother to ask how I know this).

Another big difference, if other people are running the same course, is that their tracks can be a lot easier to see than when there's no snow.

What I have done in the past that has really worked very well, is take a large scale map, say 1:25000 (black / white), which you can get at any map office, draw a long route on it (in red), and use it as a long jog with your lamp.

Don't worry about how accurate it is, it's all about using the map and getting some practice in. My OL was always better in the years that I did this and I don't know if it's because I did this or not, but I like to think it's because I did it :)

Happy winter snow training!

Ya jj is right about tracks, its massive elephant trails to the eXtreme.
At least thats what happned when I was orientering last winter with GHO.

JJ has pointed out one of the more accurate (if not recommended) ways to distinguish between a pond and an open area, in case you are attempting to relocate.

I agree about the tracks in races. Our Thomass winter series includes a segment where you can take the controls in any order, and people do different numbers of controls based on age and gender. When designing O courses for snowy days, straight point-to-point courses can be dull. Butterfly loops, map exchanges and other tricks can make it a challenge to decide which tracks to follow, at least!

I guess if the snow is really deep, it might be a problem, but I've found that winter orienteering isn't much different from orienteering the rest of the year. Sometimes, the footing actually imrpoves with some snow cover.

As long as the snow is runnable, I like to do training that focuses on contours. The shape of the hills is much clearer without vegetation and no leaves, most point features are covered so what remains is more or less a contours-only situation. Even well known maps look different under snow.

Not to speak about snow snake hunting. But don't say anything to Swampfox, he doesn't think we should make any frivolous commentaries about these pure sweet creatures.

Also, if you happen to be teaching orienteering the snow can be really useful for teaching contour lines. Go to a field that has some small hills and have the students start on a hillside and walk without going up or down at all. When they finished, have them look back at their tracks and they can see exactly where the contour lines are and what shape they have.

Snow's too deep? No problem! Get one of those pairs of snowshoes that are smaller and more runnable in. You'll get a great workout and you can still go on a map! The big bonus is that if your really really bad at reading a map during the winter you can always follow your prints back :)

If there is several runners, there is no point running same course or same controls. Tracks will spoilt the fun.

Here is one good what you can do instead:
- split the group in pairs
- plan a default course
- each pair plans own course, course should be close to the default one but it should not have same control points at all.
- course should be runnable in both directions
- each pair agrees a sign they use as contol (like X or Q)
Pairs run the course in opposite direction and they draw the sign to the snow at each control. So first half is kind of control putting. There will be tracks, but you can not know will they go to your control (usually not), so you can use them to make running in snow easier if snow is deep (this is why there is this "default course") but you can not simply follow them to control.

Jagge's idea sounds like an interesting snow training..So, if I understand correctly, there is no real control hanging. And it seems there are a couple requirements to this: both members of a pair should have similar O-skills and all participants should have a good level of confidence they can place markers correctly.

actually the Thomass winter series , is pretty well designed. several former participants at WOC were course planners thru the years, and they do(did) a pretty good job, of course other organizers they try to become more inventive, therefore, in my opinion the series works out pretty well. yes sometimes we have parts of the course that end up being pure running , but it's unbelieveble what pace is then. normalyy I have 6-7 O-races with this series during winter and at all of them i probably have a very high heart rate. i don't explore 100 % O-technique there, but , I really love it.and I'm not the only one

David Frie and I sometimes do something very similar to Jagge's suggestion, except we hang flagging tape on a little clip (takes about 5 seconds to hang) so we can do it year round. You hang until you get to a control location that's already taped (usually we see each other passing, but not always). Then you start pulling them down instead of putting them up.

when going for training runs in the snow do you warm up at all? im going to be in ontario over christmas and new years and am thinking i will freeze if trying to run!

ioana> True, no real control hanging, so there is no tracks made by conrol hanger either. And yes, to do this you need some decent skill to be able to place markes. But here you can learn by doing - you will hear afterwards if your parner fond your marker or not, and was it at right place. And because it's just sign in the snow you don't have to worry if a control was lost (you don't need to search it afterwards).

ebuckley> In snow conditions it's better if there is more than two runners, there will be more tracks than just one leading straight to control. And what it comes to training with control hanging and no snow, my absolute favourite is this full-speed-putting-chasing-pulling-interval-training (I don't know what do you call it, let me know if you know a name). We did it one yesterday, look at my log for details.

there's also never any guarantee that the tracks you follow - if you follow them - are going where you want to or that that person wasn't more out of touch with the map than you are. For example just like Mr T, I pity the fool who follows my tracks in the snow.

Thomass does a good job of making this tactic even less useful by using the box and sometimes providing multiple courses of equivalent difficulty.

Kendal, don't worry about freezing when you run in Ontario at Christmas time! Yesterday was a colder-than-average December day, and I was too hot running in a light polypropylene long-sleeved shirt under a lightweight softshell jacket. It's usually a good idea to start out wearing a headband to cover your ears and gloves to keep your fingers warm, but I often end up removing them on days when there isn't much wind.

If you're still here on Jan. 7, you should try a Thomass winter orienteering race!

yeah, december tends to feature dry roads, frozen grass and moderately cold temps and it's always warmer in the woods. It's not till january/february that it gets stupid, and I and many others train outdoors through it all. A word to the wise though - windproof underwear.

There's also a sport called ski-orienteering. I've never tried it but I hear it's a lot of fun ;-)
Bash, get your skinny ass over here, you need more ski time! Conditions are A1

Argghh, southern Ontario has rain in the forecast for the next 5 days! Silver Star sounds mighty tempting right now, not to mention this mysterious sport of "ski orienteering" that you speak of.

i fly out of ottawa on the 8th of jan i think. i love winter tho :) so i dont mind the cold! i think brockville is southern ontario? glad im not gonna freeze :)

Kendal, you need to harden up mate!
I'm going to be in Ottawa around then, drop me a line if you want to get a run in.
Of course, in 1998 Brockville was at the centre of this wee storm at the exact time you'll be there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Ice_Storm

I had to drive 2.5 hours due south of Ottawa to find winter last weekend.

haha okay i will keep it in mind. tho im not allowed to run becauswe have compartments syndrome!