Discussion: breakfast

Pre-breakfast Alex can be a non happy critter. Its best to feed her something, even if it is wallpaper paste. Just tell her it is oatmeal.

Heyyyyy.

Ug, that does not sound appetizing! But maybe should stock emergency b'fast rations in the car... =)

(Other related note of the morning: mousse .ne. breakfast)

.ne. \ne \ne

And I'm sure it can, mousse, that is.

Are you mixing Fortran and mousse? That seems like a bad combo.

Hmm, yeah, Fortran was not exactly in the recipe. =) But recipe was in French, and without too much guidance...

And what language is \ne? Anti-breakfast mousse vote from Alex, too sweet, I think.

too mousse-y. I wasn't awake enough to fully appreciate it, and mousse needs full appreciation, because it is awesome.

\ne is Python language...as in the Knights who say - eller hur??

Another similar tag: \neq is LaTeX.

$\ne \equiv \neq$

aha, I should hang out with the knights, don't speak python yet!

AliC:
You seem way too casual mentioning fortran. Please tell me you don't actually have any fortran code that you use...

there are still anthropologists who use it. I just coauthored two papers with someone who wrote the programs to run all our simulations in it.

Still commonplace in the climate field (it's what I do most of my work in) - efficient for crunching lots of numbers.

At my workplace it is viewed with disdain. Oh wait...

Fortran is alive and well in my research group for our hydrological modeling.
It's either fortran or matlab for what we do...but only after a good breakfast.

Thierry mentioned that to prepare for long races he would train for 60-75 minutes in the morning before breakfast to get that late in the race low energy feeling.

See, I've heard that theory, and I think it's silly. Because you can just take a gel, and then you'll be faster AND smarter.

still astrophysicists who speak fortran too- those who run the big simulations of the formation of structure in the universe or really in-depth on a single galaxy or a star exploding to be a supernova... but I don't do much of that, mostly use IDL, which hey, can also process lidar data if you make it =)

low energy feeling could happen in a race even with a gel... so could train for it sans breakfast, right?

Back to breakfast.... my buddy Mark Tarnopolsky feels very strongly that to do well in endurance sports you have the physical training, the mental training the technical training and then he says you also have 'train the gut'. That means being able to take in high carbs before a race and to determine the best timing and breakfast you can have pre-race. So the other line of thought is to train like it is a race. Perhaps get him to give a 'keynote' talk at the World Ski-O cups in Feb.

Hammer, which side are you defending with Mark's training of the gut? I believe in the train-to-eat-a-huge-breakfast side of things, but also, I come from the skiing side of things, where even if your breakfast isn't fully out of your belly, you'll be ok. I know a lot of runners who race with an absolutely minimal breakfast. I think even with training, I could never do that and be fast.

Early-morning workouts though don't allow for race-emulation eating though, cause we're on the road only 15 min or so after waking up! An interesting idea though to 'train' breakfast. Or maybe experiment is the right word. I have a breakfast that works for me, is it the best, who knows? But so hard to evaluate during a race if it's what you have or have not eaten or drank versus other things that might be going on too, sleep, previous rest days or hard workouts, whatever...

Food during workout might also be more important than I usually give credit for. Pretty sure I could of used more out on the WOC long, but I'd never taken a gel out on an O race before so didn't feel like it was the right place to try... should try now on a workout or two though, maybe will make a good difference!

And sounds like an interesting guy to give a talk, but would he be interested? Skiing/orienteering fan?

Second on the speaker of interest.

I would never do an early workout without something to eat. For early morning races it's at least yogurt (and diet coke).

When rogaining, sometimes I'll load up on burgers and chili and immediately go back out. But that's at a jog, not run.

Ali -- for Longs, you need to try some gels. I like Hammergel (cap H), but the others are okay, too, except in winter when some get really thick and hard to get out of the packet. Have had a few gu's smeared all over my ski gloves.

I've learned what I can snack on before an early run or race. But I don't generally bother unless I wake up starving and we're talking ~2 hour workout or something. I seem to race just as well on an empty stomach as a snacked one, so I'd definitely chalk this up to personal preference.

Mark Tarno went to a couple of World Ski-O Champs for Canada in the 1980s/early 90s. Italy for sure in early 90s.

He'd be hard to beat in the Masters Champs.

Also a fan of beer.

Plus, if you start using gels during longs, you can greatly entertain people by being shown on the big screen pulling them out of your bra and then not being able to open them. Seriously, who thought tv controls at the water stop were a good idea!

Use Clif Blocs - just as good, easier to use, and not as messy.

Is that true? Someone told me that basically the further something is from liquid, the harder it is to digest, so it's better to use gels.

They are softer than gummy bears sort of. So pretty soft, but not sticky and in smaller increments. One tube has 6 bloks totaling 200 calories. They think that is 2 servings, but what do they know. And you can do like Lyn and put a couple in your bra (Oops - don't mention that I said that.)

Yeah, I have used them before but never for a really important race. Maybe I should experiment some more. Although I'm pretty happy with gels; I just need to practise opening them. Will said trying to use my teeth was wrong.

I used to use gels a lot until the Bloks came out. Gels present a problem with opening as you describe and then disposing the packet - either you have a sticky gooey thing in a pocket, getting the next one gooey, or toss it in the woods! OMG! You can't do that! Bloks - just grab one and chew and you get a little burst. Got me through the Billygoat, and I was out there a lot longer than youngsters are.

My issue with bloks is that I can't chew when my face is cold, and my face is frequently cold during ski races.

Carol, I use my teeth all the time to open gels, it takes less coordination, I find. My fingers don't like to cooperate when I race.

Hey, Alex, I thought you were having an internet-free trip to WV?

Woo, multiple options =) Actually, have tried the bloks before, for mountain marathons, and really liked, little nuggets of sugary salty yum. Wonder if chewing them while breathing at L4 or higher will work, but worth trying, cause I like the idea of them better than gels...

Ski race fave? The hot sugary tea at last years clarée marathon... oh, I guess maybe having some electrolytes would be better. Add salt? (Grossest ski race feed: flat coke mixed with coffee when I was just expecting gatorade, blech)

Mark Tarnopolsky's fave sport is still ski orienteering and he is the reigning Cdn champ. he said he plans to race the entire week in Tahoe.

alex, his rationale is to use as mych of your training time to do as you would in a race. if you have trouble with a big breakfast find out how many hours before is OK. the carb loading is not as imp for women though.

Cool that Mark is planning to come! Is how important carb loading is just a function of body fat percentage, women have more to draw on? Or something more than that? Haven't heard that before, so curious!

70 minutes vs 100, I presume

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7615443

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S...

Holy interesting science, batman! That's neat stuff!

Okay, how come no one talks about these things? And now I have so many more questions...

Well I've had Mark give several talks at training camps here in Hamilton. The last one was when Holger Hott was in town in 2006 (though he did talk to ARK last year). These are the papers I think he would suggest as a starting point.

Tarnopolsky, M.A., M. Gibala, A.E. Jeukendrup, and S.M. Phillips. Nutritional Needs of Elite Endurance Athletes. Part I Carbohydrate and fluid requirements. European Journal of Sport Science 5(1): 3-14 2005. R30

Tarnopolsky, M.A., M. Gibala, A.E. Jeukendrup, and S.M. Phillips. Nutritional Needs of Elite Endurance Athletes. Part II: Dietary protein and the potential role of caffeine and creatine. European Journal of Sport Science 5(2): 59-72 2005. R31

Thanks, but why are you up?

"potential role of caffeine"

Wow, yeah, super interesting!

via ph http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYiaShoOt8

Snow snow and skiing, oooh, now I want winter... also approve of number of meals, lotsa musili!

Where does one get decent muesli in this country? I haven't found anything up to Swedish standard, and Irish muesli is better than Swedish...

Oops, probably shouldn't be asking this on the log of someone who eats Fruity Pebbles with pleasure.

http://www.bobsredmill.com/old-country-style-muesl... at Ocean State Job Lot or Finax muesli at IKEA

I've been eating Dorset muesili bought at Whole Foods, but imported from the UK. I only like one of them though, most have too much sugar. Bobsredmill is also okay, also available at Whole Food, but I'm sure cheaper at Ocean State. I add extra stuff to both.

The cheapest way is to make your own. There are no secret ingredients involved - just buy them all separately and mix...

Some basic ingredients in what I make would be rolled oats, bran flakes, raisins, soy meal, linseeds, sesame seeds plus whatever dried fruits or nuts that happen to be available.

Trader Joe's used to sell a a "blueberry muesli" that I thought was pretty good.

I'm a cereal omnivore, Fruity Pebbles is an important part of the spectrum! Muesli here is hard because almost all have nuts which are evil.

Fruity Pebbles are the spectrum... all the way through to ultra-viole(n)t... they're still in my kitchen awaiting your return...

Hah, that's awesome, too fake to go stale? Will see... !