Discussion: Anyone use Pose Method?

In doing some web searching for running technique, I came across a reference to the Pose Method for running and subsequently read more about it. ( http://www.posetech.com/ )

After good results cutting out much of the 'heel striking' and 'over-striding' from my technique, I'm game to look into any option - heck, if ski-jumpers can develop a better way to do it...-)

Anecdotally, I know I do downhill better than the average runner and that is pretty much falling while keeping a leg between you and the ground, so it makes some sense. (timid runners stay vertical)

Curious if others use or have looked at this style.

runner's world magazine did a fairly big article on this a year or two ago. I forget what their conclusion was. I've never tried it myself.

I'd come across similar things myself (eg,
Evolution) and was thinking of giving it a go sometime. I wonder if it's less relevant for Orienteering though, as I think they encourage a very low knee lift, which might not work terribly well in rougher terrain.

The verdict in the Runner's World article is that if you were already running sub-8 minute miles, this was probably too radical of a change. If you were a shuffler, it might help you get a little more forward drive into your stride.

I know a few people who use this technique and one person who is qualified to coach it. Their experience seems to confirm the idea that this is a technique best suited to shufflers. One thing that is important to note is that the "falling forward" aspect is really just a visualization technique, not a physical reality. If you were to actually plant your foot behind your center of gravity, you wouldn't stay upright for very long. The idea is to get the hips forward so you get a better push. Unfortunately, many people trying this method do just the opposite - they lean their bodies forward which pushes the hips back. If you're serious about trying this, you may want to get some people who have mastered it (preferrably a qualified coach) to make sure you're doing it right.

Another similar technique

http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php

The idea is to get the hips forward so you get a better push. Unfortunately, many people trying this method do just the opposite - they lean their bodies forward which pushes the hips back. If you're serious about trying this, you may want to get some people who have mastered it (preferrably a qualified coach) to make sure you're doing it right.

This is all quite well known ... getting the hips back leads to poor weight shift, late kick, poor compression, skis don't grip the snow, and you can't get up the hill ... am I on the wrong discussion board?

I came across this article in the latest NYT magazine (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/running...) and it made me curious to find out whether there are any orienteers out there who have deliberately switched their running technique to the "Pose method" (or similar) and what their thoughts about it are? Intuitively the "Pose method" seems to make a little less sense running off-trail through terrain than on flat hard surfaces without obstacles, but it might still be worth a try, or?

The key point I pulled from McDougall's article is to pull up with the knee rather than push off with the foot. (that and all the stuff about posture and an increased cadence, etc). It seems like a subtle difference, but it's a completely different bio-mechanical experience. There is far less knee torque on the trailing leg (it avoids the hyper-extension inherent in giving that last little oomph on the push off) and the landing is inherently softer. Speed is determined not by how hard you "shove off", but rather by the forward lean of body (being careful to avoid "piking")--which is why McDougall. Add a cadence that is between 85 and 90 bpm and you will avoid a lot of harm.

This would be the case whether on trails or on the road. I've tried the 100 up exercise shown in the video that accompanies the article and it really illustrates the technique well. So does watching an 11 year old run.

Wow - 5 years later... Thanks for digging it up.

I saw that article and I'm looking to get the book from my local library.

To answer the question - I actively moved away from heel striking and increased my pace to 90 strides per minute and consider it a positive change. I am running more and feeling it less in the knees.

Maybe I never got it right, but I didn't see the shuffling aspect, and I think Trav has hit on it as well. It works for forest running because you can never just "land" on a foot and expect it to be rock solid, you're always planning for some shifting or unexpected situation and if/when that happens, you try to be light on that foot and quickly get the other in place. And that's possible when you're on top of your feet.

I had already seen that article and will be trying the exercises.

I tried incorporating the exercises and running into my training in 2009. I understand the theory involved but i think it's close to useless in Orienteering. It's about falling forward instead of pushing forward. But you need propulsion to get over difficult hills, fallen trees, kolls, up crags. You're never going to be able to get rid of natural propulsion from your technique in the forest so why bother having two methods of running and alternating between them during the race. I think it's not useful in orienteering. But maybe on a flat track it's got a place.

Not really on purpose, I got some lighter weight shoes about 7-8 months ago with not too much heel padding. I find myself running more with a forefoot strike because it would be uncomfortable to slam my heel down. I really like the feel of it. It does take a while to get used to it.

A number of years ago I tried to make the switch to Pose to reduce my running injuries. At the same time I began adding barefoot running to my training, around the yard and field adjoining my property, and eventually got frustrated when switching back and forth to running shoes. Two years ago I switched almost exclusively to barefoot running. For me, barefoot running on the roads has corrected and taught me better, injury free form. Now I can run in minimal shoes and not have the issues I had in cushioned running shoes, which tended to encourage heel-striking. I now run 80% barefoot on the roads and although do some barefoot trail running, trail run and orienteer in Merrell "barefoot" trail shoes. Learn how to run barefoot, then find a good minimal shoe if desired...

Anyone orienteering regularly in "Fivefingers"?

Actually yes, some young woman was in them at Pawtuckaway this fall.
I think the thick padded shoes are in the end, not good for your running, or your body.
When I was 8, a former college runner friend of my Dad's gave some running advice.
"Run on your toes, lift your knees, pump your arms".
I think he got it about right but I lost that form when I stopped running for 10 years, and came back with the LSD, run on your heels movement.
The past 5 years I have spent undoing that form, it's working, but I'm not there yet.
What shoes have low heels?

O shoes.

Yep, most O shoes should actually be quite good for "Pose running". Among "normal" running shoes someone recommended Asics Piranha for Pose.

I am doing very well in New Balance 101 shoes for trail running and orienteering, and for my occasional forays on the roads. Even lower and maybe better for the purpose are Merrell Trail Glove. Sharon ran the sprints at WMOC in Merrell Trail Gloves, but I think she wore o-shoes for the long distance.

What shoes have low heels?

Inov-8s, with a variety of choices on just how low you want the heels.

I orienteer in Merrell's Trail Glove "barefoot" shoes, which have the same weight and thickness of Vibram KSO Trek, but no individual toes, and the Merrell's have traditional laces. If it is really harsh or super muddy I run in Inov-8 Talons. They also have a zero heel drop...

Neither the x-talon 212 nor the x-talon 190 have zero heel drop. They don't have much (6mm and 3mm, respectively), but it's not zero.

I am sorry, I meant the Merrell Trail Glove has zero drop, although the X-Talon is minimal it still interferes with my form, and I tend to heel strike with them, but that's just me...

Stryder, have you tried Inov-8's Bare-grip 200? They have a 0 mm differential with a similar tread to the x-talons. I'd be curious to know what you think.

I have done some trail running in the Merrell Trail Gloves, and I may orienteer in them at some point.

I would definitely like the Inov-8 Bare-grip 200. I usually keep up with Inov-8 and have been a fan since their inception but I missed this one. I will put them on my soon to try list!