Discussion: Olympic illusion

How many times we have heard that ski-o has the best chances to be included. I don't know anything about how the process of inclusion is run by IOC but probably it is also hard to see when and way ski-o was excluded.

Final list of sports which are still hoping for Sochi 2014
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/art...

The above isn't a list of "sports". It is a list of new events in existing sports. There are no new sports in Sochi, as far as I know.

Orienteering was rejected for Sochi a long time ago. It got rejected for the 2018 Olympics program in October of 2010.

You are right. I made a quick search through IOC website and found only a few orienteering news in their database. It is good to see that motivation for inclusion is still high. As I understand the news from IOC only 2-3 sports are trying to get in the programme of Winter Olympic Games and orienteering has still the best chances to be selected or not?

Candidates - Turin 2006 report (p.4)
Ski Mountaineering
Ski Orienteering

Candidates - Sochi 2014
Ski Orienteering
Ski Mountaineering
Winter Triathlon

At the risk of upsetting a few of you.....Who cares?

Sure it might be great for the few athletes that make each team but what does the wider orienteering community get out of this dream?
More people joining clubs? Cant say that I've ever been tempted to take up say Table Tennis because its an olympic sport.
Better sponsorship? No because we are still not a TV friendly product unless we prostitiute ourselves and change the sport to suit TV
More drug cheats in our sport?
Corruption of officials?

I don't really think its going to be the game breaker all you lot think it will be and it looks like I'm not alone going on that British elites comments the other week.

Let's just get on with it and make our sport the best it can be for the wider orienteering community. If the dream happens then so be it, but I for one wouldn't spend a cent on chasing it.

I have a positive attitude to this question.

Sport hierarchy with IOC on top is clear and whole world accept it so I don’t know way we should neglected this. I think that Olympic dream is a matter of ultimate recognition of orienteering sport. Problems which are raised through inclusion and you are also mentioned we should be able to solve in the way that at the end we will still love our sport.

Some of the inclusion problems from others are here .
Achieving Olympic status will bring more chances to fund athletes programme from national OCs and governmental bodies. National federations will have more chances to raise a profile of sport and also develop sport for wider community. This will also help us with better funding for officials, trainers, etc. This will mean that we will be able to get more talented youngsters to the sport. I think that this is also a driving force for IOF.

As I am also a member of Slovenian Olympic committee (disciplinary commission) I would hope for more common work between National federations and IOF. In a way that IOF could be able to produce more frequently information about this issue. Media and IOF reports could make better understanding among us about currently position of orienteering in each country. Also Olympic dream should be part of a process for each federation and not just a work for IOF.

I was thinking to prepare a questionnaire so we all could help and give IOF more information. Could someone present which information, reports IOF collects from National federations? How is structured official reporting from federation to IOF? I know only for one report, regarding National championships and participation for every year.

From IOC report it is clear that IOC evaluation criteria also helps us to focus on our development. That is good even if we wouldn’t become an Olympic sport. As IOC also IOF could make similar criteria to see the status of o-sport in each country. We have quite a big problem to present Orienteering as a competitive sport in our country. We are treated as a recreational sport not just from media but also from NOC and funding rules. We are trying to do something but we would need also an efficient IOF development policy. I am not talking just about currently developing policy which serve IOF to focus only on Olympic dream issue but also developing policy for NF and how could IOF helps NF to develop sport in each member federation.

Who cares?

We've had this discussion many times in the past 20 years or so. At least in North America, the sport is stagnant and will transition to shrinking and/or dying in the next decade or so. An Olympic perspective is one of the possible ways to breathe life into it. There are other ways. Some have been tried, and failed.

Let's just get on with it and make our sport the best it can be for the wider orienteering community.

In a nutshell, that's what all sports are doing. Most of them are better at it than orienteering, because they have the Olympics or some other access path to reservoirs of financing. The better-funded pastimes beat out the lesser-funded ones in competition for the public's interest, enthusiasm, and volunteer time.

I am reluctant to weigh in on this argument as it's been done so many times, but yup, in the UK Olympic status would lead to at least some (though maybe not much) NGB funding.

I am not saying whether I think it is a good thing or not though. Just stating that.

If ski-o' became an olympic sport I think here in the US we would see a surge in interest and participation in Ski-O' from some pretty serious and dedicated athletes. And, some of these folks would try foot O' too. Maybe just for training at first but some may even switch over to foot O' as their main sport. I may be wrong but I think PG's first O experience was related to ski training.

I cannot count the number of times I was describing orienteering to someone, and they asked "is it in the Olympics?"

Then again, neither is lacrosse...

IOC confirmed the inclusion of six new events on the programme of the Olympic Winter Games in Sochi in 2014.

I was trying to find more info. about overall quota and the number of sports / events / athletes permitted on Winter Olympic Games. I didn’t find anything useful. Only that athlete’s quotas started in 2006. They haven't fixed the framework, yet as they already did for Summer Olympic Games in 2004.

FACTS

2010 VANCOUVER, Canada
Participation : 82 NOCs, 2631 athletes (1066 women, 1565 men), 86 events, 7 sports
Programme of sports and disciplines 1924-2010 - p.3,4

Summer Olympic Games has current framework of approximately 10,500 athletes, 28 sports and 300 events.

Bringing an old thread back just to share with you that Orienteering was slightly too short and is not among the candidates for Tokyo 2020 Games.

With a bit of irony what's missing orienteering to become at least a candidate. I mean do we meet all the formal requirements set by IOC or not?

Do you somehow know how your federation contributes to this goal?

PS
tRicky you're most welcome to contribute to this thread :)

You're just daring me to now aren't you? However orienteering/Olympic threads are a bit ho hum these days. Maybe the Olympics needs to be held in in a Scandinavian country for it to be considered.

No, no, I just thought that sometimes would be good to have your opinion first and give others a chance to comment.

I will do a short introduction as I would love to know what other people think about different multi-games.

I am not sure if IOF really has a political influence and wisdom needed to make a breakthrough and achieve this goal. Orienteering is mainly part of non-Olympics multi-sport games like World Games which officials consider as a waiting room for any sport wanted to be part of Olympics. Not necessarily.

I believe that the true waiting room are Continental Games where you have a mix of Olympics and non-Olympics sports: Pan-American Games, Asian Games, All-Africa Games, Pacific Games and also the newly established European Games.

In Europe we have a Mediterranean Games where only part of EU countries are eligible to participate. Games lost their TOP popularity long ago and in last 20 years this event is considered to be a B event for many sports. Preparation for World and European champs have priority and many top athletes skip this event. It is considered as a B Event and countries send mainly their talented young athletes to gain some experiences.

Now this will change as we'll also get our European games. Our Olympic committee and national federations already announced that they will make a full support to send the best athletes and make arrangements with national TV broadcasters to cover the games. Political decision has been made and probably others will do the same as this is in everyone interest.

Mediterranean Games will probably fade away or become even less important. We missed our chance to be part of this event long ago but in the last years IOF and part of EU federations established a strong initiative to gain inclusion to this event. In the backstage they have missed our opportunity to put all available resources in the last 4 years to develop, make presentations and organize more events in Azerbaijan. Lack of information and bad leadership judgment as I don't remember that IOF has done anything else beside welcome Azerbaijan as a new IOF member.

Why Baku 2015 European Games is important?

"The Baku organizers have choosen 4 non-Olympics sports. Karate is one of the fastest growing combat sports in the world and it is one of the four non-Olympic sports that will take place at the inaugural European Games."
+ Basketball 3x3
+ Beach soccer
+ Sambo

All continental games are in hierarchy after the Olympic Games and being part from the start is very important. Take a look at Wrestling which was on the way to loose Olympic's status but the tradition and history preserve their status. Orienteering has tradition in Europe, best athletes come from EU, etc and I believe that we should have been done more to find a way to be part of these Games. I don't know if orienteering has tried to be part of any continental Games in the past but all sports who are today a candidate for Tokyo 2020 Games are part of these continental games, part of Olympic federation or have been part in previous Games.

I will be interested to know what IOF did to showcase Orienteering as an important European sport which deserves to be part of these games. I hope that they'll not try to showcase orienteering at a such historical 1st Games and use a guerrilla tactic to organize unofficial events before or in time of the games.

Huh... All comments most welcome but please don't reply just to say hello.

I think Salsa should be an Olympic sport. It's been around since the dawn of time, as such there are many variations. It looks nice. It's great to watch. It is physically and technically challenging. It is done in pairs. It has got a nice beat to it and also - it is a great addition to whatever foods you eat for lunch or dinner, or even a great snack on its own with chips. I vole Salsa.

I'm not sure how this all works politically but I think it's interesting. As discussed before, I think there is already cross-country skiing in the winter Olympics if I remember correctly. Could Ski-O get added as a new event under the sport of XC-skiing? On the summer side, I believe that running (Athletics) is already an Olympic sport (speed walking too). Could Running-O AKA Foot-O be added as a new event under the athletics umbrella? My guess is that the IOF would have to submit/merge to the respective sports governing bodies for this to happen. This might be rather controversial, but maybe the "sport" should "sell-out" for a chance at the Olympics.

I think there is already cross-country skiing in the winter Olympics if I remember correctly.

Five million Norwegians just gasped internally. (They wouldn't gasp externally as that might be construed as talking to a stranger.)

That's racist. Wait, is it still racist if coming from a Norwegian? Anyway I laughed.

Oh, hi kofols :-)

hi, tRicky, nice to meet you :-)

Cristina's not Norwegian, just so you know.

Aww, I was kind of enjoying the compliment, if that's what it was.

Yes, I figured you weren't but you are there so an honorary Norwegian.

(sorry, the "racist" comment comes from watching too many Cinemasins videos)

Getting back on topic (dangerous thing, I know), the main thing that's changed is that there are two new ways for something to get into the Olympics:

- that "events" rather than "sports" will be able to get in (what the difference between an "event" and a "sport" is in this context is still a bit of a mystery, but it suggests that a single event might be able to get in without committing to a full-blown program)
- host cities will be able to nominate events (a presumably limited number) 3 years ahead of the Olympics.

Whether orienteering will be able to take advantage of either of these is a question mark, but it does mean two possible alternate routes to the Olympics that didn't previously exist.

Incidentally, the "minimum number of countries" benchmark no longer exists as a set criterion (although obviously the more countries you have, the better it is for your chances).

@Incidentally, the "minimum number of countries" benchmark no longer exists

So, what prevent orienteering to become at least a candidate?

Thanks for jumping in. Here are probably only few of us who are interested in this but this is A LOT.

It is nice that orienteering would like to maintain its vision and Olympic goal but if IOF wants to have a strong support for the next +20 years I suspect that federations and orienteering community need to know where we were, where we are and what has changed over the last 10/15 years. A simple data comparison for year 2000 and 2014. At IOC page is a report of shortlisted 2020 candidates and what we're missing here is a tweet about IOF's self-assessment so anyone could understand IOF position. It would be fair that federations get more structured report and not just high-fly words about our vision and PR articles in IOF magazines.

Sharing only a vision and asking for a long-term support without an adequate yearly report + organization of a wider discussion session at least every 4 years (concrete action plan with tasks for the next period) may be seen very unprofessional.

As you pointed out "there are two new ways" so we need to know what IOF plan to do and how much all these "necessary" bureaucratic, political, technical and promotional actions will cost us. Compare to other candidates we simply don't have enough resources to backup a strong campaign and we all know that.

Do we know how much Squash spent for 3x unsuccessful campaigns?

Do we rely on humanity, ecology or it is just that we're so confident in our believe that even with relatively low worldwide reach, small media draw and small revenues orienteering WILL "bring some element to the program that doesn't already exist". Is our "extra added value" so special and unique compare to others that they will recognize it from the plane and find it important no matter how we stand on other economic criteria. What is true market value of orienteering if we are struggling to sell TV rights, struggling to find sponsors and struggling to get viewers outside orienteering folks? Maybe IOF need to publish some facts from previous WOCs first so people could understand what IOF is asking when saying we need to invest into our future.

On the other hand it is great that president have time to participate at various international conferences and lobbying but as we all know IOF is very tiny federation. That's way might be good to hear more about the achievements, use them as a basis for a discussion every 4 years and why we need to continue on this path. It would be great to know what investments related to Olympic ambition are also beneficial for sport in general.

I'm not a pessimist but I'm not an optimist, either. I just don't know what to believe without any public data and too weak signal from IOF. My only thought is: "It's my pleasure to meet you. We'll work on that, thanks."

Even if orienteering will not become Olympic sport ever I believe that following these criteria is good for the development of the sport. I hope.

Did you just split your post in two? That's worthy of a Gold Medal.

Yes.

Third way.

I think they should give Glima another chance. It's like ballroom dancing where you're trying to trip your partner.

Glima is more or less the same as Aussie Rules then?

I find it hilarious that Aussie Rules was once a demonstration sport, no doubt during the Melbourne Olympics. It's effectively only played in one country!

Foot o in the Olympics in Boston 2024? Let's be the first! Rumor is they are looking for interesting promo sports.

"events" rather than "sports"

As I understand it, IOF want to justify each event, not each sport. So sport with a single discipline (e.g. squash) could replace one event (e.g. 100m backwards swimming) instead of replacing ALL swimming. The cap on participation will be number of competitors, not number of sports.

It is actually very positive for small sports, although orienteering is wellback in the line.

The rules of how host cities will be able to nominate events are not yet confirmed by IOC. There is a plan to have it ready in February.

From what I read it might happen that only new disciplines in pre-existing sports will be able to enter Olympics as an "event" selected by host city or might be without restrictions but event representing new sport will not be entitled to automatic inclusion of the sport and sport federation into Olympics. More like a temporarily status like Wrestling which get its status back for 2020 and 2024 Games.

While "host city events" might be selected a few years before the Games, this is probably not applicable for new sports which must be selected by IOC seven years before any given Olympic Games. There might be a different policy for "events" and for "sports".

For these "new disciplines" of a currently included sport the whole inclusion process is much easier as it is for new sports. They only need an approval by IOC Executive board and not by IOC members.

These "host city events" will probably act very similar to the demonstration sports in the past. We could get a solution to please everyone: "each Olympics a few events from different sports" so host city and IOC could maximize a host nation interest for the Games, spectator TV image on site and do more creative marketing actions with partners and local economy. Host city will probably choose events based on: local popularity, existing sport facilities, pre-existing popular events in the area and personal preferences of members in the panel group. Inclusion criteria for events might be different than that for sports so it will be interesting to see the height of the hurdles and what restrictions will be set by IOC.

Basketball 3x3 is the only sport from currently included sports which is seeking inclusion into the Games. Easy to organize, no special location needed, and fulfill all what I said. New faces - no need to have elite basketball players, a lot of experiences how to comment, report, show data on TV, everyone understands basketball, so B3X3 should be easy to implement.

In case that Boston gets 2024 Olympics and B3x3 will not be part of Tokyo Games I bet 100% that one "event spot" will be reserved for this sport (discipline).

I don't think everyone understands basketball. What the heck is a technical timeout???

To concertize this thread.

A few provocative questions. Maybe many have tried to get an official-not public answers which I'm not aware. In any case, too little people know that IOF has an Olympic goal. I have a felling that nobody beside people at IOF, a few federations, a few orienteers and a few at IOC know that. It is very little about Olympics in Council minutes or on page. It is almost a joke that we really have had an Olympic ambition for last 15-20-25 years. Hope you will not crucify me because I'm saying that Emperor is naked.

1) What kind of events must happen in order to expect a red card from the federations?
Probably less actions, the better. Federations are very speculative channel in most sports. Many are hoping to climb the ladder and they act only when they cant loose nothing. Nobody is dare to ask unpleasant questions. Is just my feeling that in many sports Executive board want to control the information as it is easier to rule. Some sports organization are closed and some are more open when it comes to key decision making information or key information processes. Is this what is also happening to us?

2) When we could expect to see light on Olympian's action plan?
It's time that in 2015 we would finally get a clear action plan and get inspired or say goodbye to Olympics. We should know what IOF is really able to do to promote Orienteering (could we do that without marketing commission) as a sport aiming to be included into Olympics.

3) Can we make a wish list for IOF?
Should we invest in online presentation like Squash, should we help to organize WOC in host cities, should we print T-shirt with slogan like "For GREEN Olympic Games. We care, join us.«, should we organize Olympic orienteering tour in all candidate host cities like City Tour or just cooperate with them to showcase IOF massage to public and media, should the best athletes need to be obligated to wear special Patch/emblem on competition jersey like other sports to promote our ambition, should we make a similar group photo of best athletes together with competition officials and slogan before the important events, should we have special TV layout with Olympic slogan, etc.

4) Is it worth to invest time and money if we can't do the moves on the ground?
It's time that we gather as many ideas as we could and see which ones could be good to promote our ambition. If we're not united and financially able to act as one on the ground than whole cause to become Olympic sport is worthless and no paper work from IOF will help us. If we don't have budget to realize a concrete action plan I also don't want to see happy officials who like to spend time and money (which is in their nature) ONLY for various single TOP sports management events and conventions just to get an excuse how our "plan" is well positioned within International sports institutions. Bullshit.

5) What would you do to inform others about our orienteering dream - to become Olympic sport?
Because IOF has no officially published action plan we as an O-community tend to be everywhere and nowhere. We need a clear guidance already in this phase. To find out what we ALL should be doing to promote orienteering and Olympic goal. We should also ask best athletes what they can do to help spread out our Olympic massage, would they be interested to support some actions for free?

6) Can we get more media attention and be heard?
Apparently IOF is doing only what they are paid for but this is not even 10% of what we should ALL be doing to step out of media isolation. If we can't spread a clear & UNITED massage, communicate with a broader public and get their support we are doomed to stand at the same position.

7) Is IOF leadership capable to convince us to act as one?

I don't know how many others feel like I do, but orienteering in the Olympics makes no difference to me. I'm not opposed to it, but I also don't have any interest in pushing for that; my efforts are better spent elsewhere.

@jjcote
my efforts are better spent elsewhere.
Not if you get a personal satisfaction and would be paid for.

It is wrong that only IOF representatives have this goal and nobody else have real interest to look in the mirror. Do we know when IOF GA decided to give a mandate to council to step on this wagon? I can't find any discussion and date when the decision was taken but it is part of our vision and strategic directions. Great to have such a vision.

In a more bureaucratic language I would give them a chance to shine. To have a record as this is important subject. A half year time to prepare a concrete action plan with milestones (fixed budget and timeline) To give them a chance to explain all reasons, facts and scenarios why we still need to pursue this goal or what would change in relation to the IOC in case we say no to Olympics. I would also expect from them to organize an extraordinary voting on this subject.

We really should put ALL cards on the table and make a binding decision. If we decide to go on, it should be clear what IOF and federations need to do to achieve some goals within a general accepted milestones. A vote for goodbye will not be the end of Orienteering.

To wrap up.

Sports which have been considered to become Olympic sports in the past years. Not a full list as we can expect that also other Olympic sports as Basketball will propose new disciplines for inclusion into 2020 Games. These are Archery, cycling and triathlon (mixed team competitions).

Good luck to orienteering and good luck to all officials. The end.

These are facts.

Not if you get a personal satisfaction and would be paid for.

Please allow me to make my own decisions as to what I find personally rewarding and important.

It was not meant literally. Sorry, I had to write differently. What really drive officials to have such an endless pasion and willingnest to spend time and money on a lost cause with 0.1% chance of success. Is being part so tempting that they fell more motivated for other more harder tasks.

My personal opinion is that orienteering in the Olympics would be a huge benefit to the sport here in the US. It would bring athletes, sponsors, support and money all into the sport. For sure there will be some down sides but the big upside would be lots more events with lots more people

With that said, though, I don't know if there would be a similar effect in other countries. For example if orienteering were in the Olympics, would Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Czech Republic, etc. notice much of a difference? I don't know but if it wouldn't make much of a difference to them, then they probably wouldn't want to waste effort pursuing it.

Keep posting kofols. You're in danger of being out-worded by non-kofols.

I enjoy reading kofols posts.

Maybe I should write that differently...

How much would people willing to change orienteering in order to get the supposed Olympic benefits?

And how big are those benefits, really? How many Americans have still never heard of handball or modern pentathlon? How much money does modern pentathlon get solely from being part of the Games? What would a TV-friendly, sponsor-friendly, Olympic Games-ready version of orienteering look like?

Cristina >> As you say, the benefits of being an Olympic sport may not necessarily mean that people know (or care) about that particular sport in the years in betwen the Games. It´s quite common to celebrate - of course - whatever medals we (in this case Sweden) get at the Olympics, but we really don´t care otherwise...

It´s quite common though that Olympic sports get some kind of economic benefits through the National Sports bodies - more so in certain countries than others.

The goal is not to have the world know and appreciate you. The goal is to reach a sustainable model. Currently there is not one in the U.S.

Synchronised swimming was an Olympic sport and very few cared about it. Outside the Balkans, how many cared about Greco-Roman wrestling? How many took up Modern Pentathlon as a sport because they saw it in the Olympics? My point is that entry to the Olympics will not pay dividends without some very effective marketing strategies in tandem.

Here, it doesn't matter much if people care. A very small fraction of total people may care, but the funding will be there, maps will be made, and people will host events.

I'm not buying it. Cycling was an Olympic sport for 80 years and yet the US Cycling Federation (which, interestingly enough, rebranded itself Cycling USA), languished until Greg Lemond came along and proved an American can win. Americans will never fund a sport we don't win at. Period.

Should the Olympics be held in Boston, the triathlon will be staged on a CSU park-O map that I use all the time with kids in the school across the street, two blocks from my house. Kind of exciting.

I notice that nestled in between the two main clusters of venues for Boston (the Waterfront and University clusters) is the North End, which, with its small twisty streets and European feel, is ideal for a sprint map. Ed has started on that project. I think orienteering would make a perfect "event".

Winter Olympics sports NGB's budgets start at ~10× the budget of Orienteering USA.

Americans will never fund a sport we don't win at. Period.

Sounds very much like Australia. There is so much money poured into swimming and cycling because we are historically good at them. In the past couple of years, the national orienteering funding was cut (for MTBO) by the national sporting body because "We (Australia) are unlikely to produce a medalist (in the WOC) within the next few years".

Adding orienteering to the Olympics might increase recognition, but whether participation or funding increases as a result is anybody's guess.

Being in a highly televised event (such as the Olympics) may help to cast of the perception that orienteering is "an old persons sport" or that it is simply "a walk in the park with a compass and a set of directions (how lame)".

One very good reason for being in the Olympics is that I'm led to believe that the international federation cut of the Olympics TV money for the smallest Winter Olympics sport (curling), averaged out over four years, is something like five times IOF's total annual budget.

That in itself is probably enough of a reason to try for inclusion, even if it doesn't directly increase participation (or even awareness).

Maybe I should take up curling for the subsidised OS travel.

If curling is the smallest Winter Olympics sport, it's still very big in the Winter Olympics schedule: For both men and women10 teams playing each other team in a round robin, followed by a playoff round, which could include tiebreakers to get into the playoff. In non-Olympic years in Canada, I'm quite certain it would be the most watched Winter Olympic sport after hockey. Even in the last Olympics, in the US despite the US doing poorly: "We began coverage on Monday and on that day, 5 telecasts of curling delivered over 5 million viewers. It was the top-rated sport of the day on NBCSN, which, by the way, was the number one cable network. I don't mean the number one cable network. I mean the number one cable network from noon until 7:00 p.m."

Curling was totally hot, partly thanks to the Norwegian team's sartorial creativity. You get a chance to go on stage, make the most of it.

james (my son) is on the school team for only two sports: Orienteering and Curling *. Some form of biathlon is clearly required ** : mixed sprint relay with two stones slid in the changeover zone?

* really, I kid you not.
** er...

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDD!!!!!!!!

@Cristina
How much money does modern pentathlon get solely from being part of the Games?

Each Games more and more and everyone constantly asks the same question: Should we get more? I really shouldn't bring these numbers up but as You got WG 2021 you might feel now that you need to know how WG model works. Congrats!

Money goes into distribution model. For 2012 they had four tiers and a new revised formula which will be valid for 2016 has five tiers. Modern pentathlon was in 4th and moved in 5th and also both new sports, golf & rugby are in 5th group.



Are you surprise?

In general I'm used to look how things works if I don't know. But I try to avoid these type of answers as this should be clear to all and presented by our federation. It is not good for development that new people need to ask these basic type of questions. We need to progress and not wasting our time. It is part of the job or interest if you want to work in business part of the sport.

It is same as if you want to go on the course and someone ask you: "What are the reasons that you need the map? Is it not obvious? Not really, we thought that you might know the area. Sorry, I have seen the map online, but I still need the map to find the control points."

Yes, we all need a bigger business map to find our route choices, good attack points and to run fast. If we can forget money in this process we would have a better focus. We need to realize that our imperative should be elsewhere because no matter how you turn it we have developed more or less only formal and technical aspects of the sport. Unfortunately IOC is not interested and never will be in how control point or map looks like. They take this for granted. They just want to see our business map.

So now the US has an opportunity to get a tv audience for orienteering .

Any chance for orienteering to be evaluated? Which criteria prevent orienteering to be evaluated and become at least a candidate or we have simply pull the brake?

"IOC will take a decision in 2017 on which new sports to add to the existing roster for the 2024 Olympics, following an evaluation period that begins in 2015."

The orienteering is officially candidate for Tokyo 2020
http://tokyo2020.jp/en/news/index.php?mode=page&am...
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/olympics/33109003

In meantime, IOF is active in a small war between MOK and SportAccord.
http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1027520/fou...

Yeah, again... meanwhile, let's also consider foot-volleyball. (We aren't the only ones with this weird nomenclature? Wouldn't they be better off trying to get ski-volleyball in the winter Olympics?)

Foot volley was popular on the beaches of Rio de Janeiro. My Mom's calendar photo this month is of a women practicing it on Leme beach, from a photo I took during her visit.

Surely orienteering has a far better chance than American football and sumo wrestling, both of which I would think are not exactly practiced on a large scale worldwide.

I think their scales are pretty large.

Its not the scale of the participation that counts. Its the scale of the TV audience. Imagine how many would pay to watch the US win a gold in their brand of football. OK, so they would need to find someone to play against.

I thought there was some rule whereby it had to be a sport played on at least four continents and with a world championship as well.

Not a hard and fast rule these days (the old 75 countries/4 continents rule no longer exists), although obviously the more countries you have the better, all other things being equal.

Something which is attractive to the IOC is sports which can engage in places with limited Olympic involvement at present; I suspect one of the main things which counted in favour of rugby sevens (which is in the program for 2016) is that it gives realistic medal prospects for several Pacific island countries which are unlikely to win medals anywhere else (except maybe boxing). The IOC would also probably have been very keen to see a bid from cricket because of the potential for a huge TV audience in India, but cricket aren't interested, at least for now.

• The additional event(s) will serve as a driving force to promote the
  　Olympic Movement and its values, with a focus on youth appeal


• The additional event(s) will add value to the Games by engaging the
  　Japanese population and new audiences worldwide, reflecting the
  　Tokyo 2020 Games vision

"Focus on youth appeal" means hip and edgy and exciting tv. That means bridge, bowling, chess, and billiards are probably out.

"engaging ... new audiences worldwide" seems to me to be basically the same thing. I can see making orienteering fit these requirements but there are also plenty of other sports on the list that would arguably be a much better fit (like flying disc sports). Should be interesting to see what they pick. Or if they do? They have to cut events if they add some, yeah? Could they add new events from several different sports?

I think there's a difference between adding a new sport (e.g. orienteering) and adding an event under an existing discipline (e.g. some kind of new running race). Adding a new sport seems to involve getting rid of an existing one whereas adding a new event doesn't.

However since my last comment was incorrect, this one probably is too.

Yep.

The BBC article says "the 28-sport cap for future summer Olympics has been dropped but they will be restricted to 10,500 athletes and 310 events." And implies that they could include events from more one new sport. So I guess neither of us can read.

"They have to cut events if they add some, yeah? Could they add new events from several different sports?"

My understanding is that this process is only for "new sports" and not for events within sports already on the programme. It will be a separate process for them, like basketball 3x3.

So they might shortlisted 1 to 6 new sports and at the end nobody will get through the IOC GA, while IOC Executive committee can decide on "new events" until three years before the Games in 2017.

So the phrase "new events" is quite misleading as there are more options on how to be treated as a sport and a candidate under "new events".

The reason why orienteering is a candidate is probably just the awareness that we also exist. That is good and it feels great that IOF doesn't spent money on the campaign as some other sports.

It will be interesting to read what they think about orienteering. Is this the first time that IOC will actually review orienteering (footO) as a possible candidate for Olympics?

This change of emphasis from sport to event is actually a massive boost to orienteering's chances of getting in (from zero, to at least ten times that...). IoF will now need only to focus on one discipline, rather than the whole sport. Goodbye forests.

Well kofols just managed to say in many paragraphs what I managed to in just one and in which Cristina immediately debunked so I guess we're all wrong.

I'd hazard that Cristina read the article prior to commenting though, so that would have given her an inherent advantage over you.

I was basing my comment on the traditional rule, before money became the overwhelming factor (so 50 years ago).

Orienteering not shortlisted for Tokyo 2020.

Well done to Wushu which is on the shortlist.

To emphasize the difference between sports and events...

Wushu has 46 world champions, we have ten. Softball has two.

China and USA?

WTF is a wushu? Oh god, another martial arts entry...

Wushu- the certain winner has a massive consumer market these days. I think this describes one of the criteria for entry. Why didn't American football get in?

Too focussed on making it a great country again to worry about new Olympic sports.

I'm not sure that orienteering would need to focus on one discipline for the Olympics (sprint versus middle versus long versus ultralong vs rogaine). It would probably actually make orienteering much more interesting for spectators if each Olympics had a different discipline of O, suited to the terrain available in that locale. Maybe in a shopping mall one Olympics, on a mountainside in another, sand dunes another, city streets and parks another. Find out the terrain type and course length when you start. Think fast.

That'd be like having Usain Bolt turn up and finding out he has to run the 10,000m.

I'd watch that!

The latest electronic edition of Curling News arrived today. The front page story is Mixed Doubles Curling is added as an Olympic event.

I'd watch that!

I guess Synchonized Curling got snubbed once again... :-(

As did synchronized orienteering :/

Let's not forget that the USOC voted in favor of Solo Synchronized Swimming and against Orienteering in the late 1980s when we tried to get Group A status. So Glen just posted which sports got in to the 2020 games, but I can't find the story on that page. Has anyone else found it? Just curious.

How can anything "solo" also be synchronized?? With music?

I think in the case of synchronised swimming, it's a way of life rather than a description of how the sport operates (although it is that too). What would it be called solo - underwater ballet?

Snooker missed out.

Have been made any survey what media in IOF countries think about orienteering?

How to come from status "strange" to "cool"?

http://www.balls.ie/american-sports/7-bizarre-spor...

I love how the picture depicting orienteering shows a control in the woods with no competitors in sight.

well, orienteering comes out best in their descriptions, I'm happy with 'good strange'. But is it just that I'm still in 'morning mode' or does anybody else count only 6 sports in the article? (and that's not me being rude and refusing to count bridge as a sport)

What I want to know is why on that Irish site, this article is under American sports. They clearly did their research too with the line: "surely Ireland would be in with a shout" when referencing orienteering.

I also only counted 6 sports.

I guess the 'American sports' thing is an auto-file because American handball gets a mention. And yes Ireland would clearly be in with a chance at orienteering as long as none of the courses had >6 controls.

The 7th sport was obviously journalism. The writer of this article didn't make the final.

So when do they start hitting each other in Wushu? It just looks like rhythmic gymnastics, except with a pole.