Can't say I agree with the implication of
this article. I've known too many women orienteers who are great at creating those mental maps.
Well, they probably wouldn't be orienteering if they weren't...
This is all about generalities and tendencies, and I've certainly seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the article - with non-orienteers.
The article just confirms why it makes sense that I find the parking spot and wait there while my wife goes in to buy the groceries.
Oh brother: another popular press article that re-confirms lay notions that: (a) behavioral science has nothing better to do than describe how men and women differ, and (b) evolution supports the idea that genetic sex differences could have arisen from sex roles that may have only existed tens of thousands of years ago. Sorry, but this one pushed the wrong buttons for me.
But there has been some articles about mistakes among elite-orienteers, for example after WOC in Sweden 2004 the showed that in general women do more mistakes and on WOC long distance in the women class you can still be in the top with some up to 5min mistakes while in the men's class you can't do more than about 1min mistake to be in the top.
And from my experience this is a general thing that women misses more than men. But why? It is harder competition in the men's class so they have to train more technique? Men automatically get more technical training since we are running longer courses, i.e. taking more controls? Or men and women just navigate in different ways?
I´ve noticed that during Night, women tend to make large mistakes. At Night NM, Marianne Andersen had a 7 minute blunder during the course, resulting in a 4th place (still pretty good). It might also be because of except for nationals, there arent many competitions that are put at night. 10mila, Jukola have all-day legs for women, so many argue that there would be no point in training at night, if there are no night events. The only relay i can think of that has night for them is 7manna/4dama, and spring cup.
Personally, i feel that night training is great o-training whether you compete day or night, so them doing less of it might contribute some.
Um, there are a lot of reasons why people make mistakes when they orienteer, and there's nothing to suggest that people making mistakes while orienteering has anything to do with the research in the article. I highly doubt that Marianne Anderson made a 7-minute mistake because she was trying to orienteer by landmarks - as if she were going to take a left at the big oak tree and a right after the house with the barking poodle and the green gnomes...
That was her plan, Cristina. But she never expected the poodle to run away and get picked up by the neighbors on the next street corner. Complete parallel error. She might have recovered quickly, but then she got distracted by a little patch of mushrooms that a man would have just ignored. That's how I'm picturing it, anyway ;-)
To me the question is begged: is there is something inherent that causes men and women to navigate differently or is it just a result of life experience?
E.G. Is gordhun' s wife better at navigating the landmarks of the grocery store because he sits in the parking lot or is there something about women that give them that ability. Conversely Is gordhun better than his wife at making mental maps because of his experience orienteering or does his male sex give him an advantage here?
Maybe we need another study.
They could team up with the people who write about the other major trope of directions in the media -- the "exotic" languages that do navigation by absolute rather than relative measures (e.g. north/south or upstream/downstream rather than left/right). Is there still a gender difference in navigation?
I read that article and didn't get much out of it other than that the Tlaxcala men hunt for mushrooms in an inefficient fashion.
Too many mushrooms can do that to you.
Might have to see the actual article to see how legit the test was, as the news report doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe the women were more efficient simply because they had more experience in the area - knew where the best spots were without having to travel as far. Maybe they are better at spotting the mushrooms being closer to the ground (shorter) and/or moving slower (shorter legs means shorter stride lengths). Point is - could be thousands of variables at play.
A number of us had a heated discussion about this one night around a fire after an O event. It made the USOF logo discussion seem tame. It developed from the discussion whether to emphasize map reading or compass usage to beginners. Some of the women present argued that focusing on the map aspect was a more male approach and women (non-elite, recreationally competitive) often use compass bearings more often and with better results.
That evolved (or maybe devolved) into coaching/teaching philosophies (Do we teach recreational orienteers the same skills and methods elites use, or not?)and then to personal attacks...like I said it was heated and a whole bunch of fun.
Not sure we came to consensus, but it was truly engaging discussion over a number of beverages.
the discussion whether to emphasize map reading or compass usage to beginners
I think it really depends on context. If you extend the bounds of orienteering, say, navigating from a hotel to a restaurant, using a Google map, then taking compass bearings makes no sense.
Conversely, and if we're talking about finding a precise point in featureless or homogenous terrain (the cartoon with a million small hills comes to mind), then compass bearings make a lot more sense to beginners.
I usually teach beginner instruction at our local events here in Seattle, and I start with the map, and finish with the compass. 90% map, 10% compass. However, it should be noted that our local events are in feature-happy, trail-happy parks, with dense vegetation that prevents a lot of off-trail excursions. I think teaching the map first makes a lot more sense for what I do. But if I were to teach beginner instruction at the 2010 US Middle Champs, it would be way different. Lots of homogenously sized and vegetated sand dunes!
Have there been any studies into navigational techniques of gay orienteers?
Gives a whole new meaning to 'sexual orientation'.
I can't navigate by landmarks. I can travel through the same route (roads driving, or forest) multiple times, but I continue to be disoriented or unsure of where I am (even if I've been there many times before) UNTIL I've seen a map. Once I've seen the map, I am fine and I remember. I hate having driving directions just given to me in words, I need the map for it to make sense.
Does this mean that I am bad at creating my own mental maps, but good at interpreting maps drawn by someone else? I could draw a very good map of the grocery store if they would just stop moving stuff around.
Of course I started orienteering at age 8 ... maybe that has something to do with it. So- give those elementary school girls more time with maps. Surely education trumps gender.
khall I'm the same. Whenever my dad realises I'm off to an event he tries to give me a detailed breakdown of where to go and I just tell him I have a map and written directions so will be able to find it, at which point he just keeps giving directions and I blithely ignore him! I'm not about to try and remember a whole bunch of words.
Half the time he tells me the way he would go to get there anyway whereas the assembly area could be in a completely different part of the area (well that's not the way HE would go, he would say after reading the directions I'd been provided).
This discussion thread is closed.