Discussion: Goat Training.

I am training for the Minnegoat at Camp Ripley. The race is in approximately seven weeks and will be around 15k in length. I hope to finish in 1.75~2.5 hours. I think that I should get some longer runs in prior to the day. I ran 1 hour 20 minutes yesterday and think I should do at least one long run every week of increasing distance. Here is my planned long run schedule:

Week 1 1:20
Week 2 1:30
Week 3 1:40
Week 4 1:50
Week 5 2:00
Week 6 2:10
Week 7 Rest

Is my plan sound?

Should I do one or two long runs per week?

Other days during the week will feature orienteering, shorter trail runs and bicycling.

I thought for sure this thread was going to have something to do with Greg B.

At the risk of being constructive...
* Plan sounds reasonable. Though I might cap it at 2hrs such that you have an extra week to get there.
* Only one long run per week is necessary. Throw in some faster stuff midweek.

I would like to do more terrain running, but...

On the long runs, I struggle to maintain the HR in the Long/Easy training range as defined here. I would like to do some of the runs in terrain, but it will be even harder to maintain Daniels' Long/Easy HR, perhaps impossible.

Is the point of these long runs right before a race to maintain a specific low HR, or is it to do longer runs no matter what the HR?

Increasing total mileage by (no more than?) 10% per week is usually recommended. If you keep base workouts (running, biking, or whatever) constant, you can increase the time of your long run by 10% each week, rather than 10 min. increments.

Good luck!

Being a long time advocate of these for myself and junior team members, I will say you have a fine plan. I too use Daniels formulas. It is hard to maintain low HR's in terrain, and especially hills. I don't use an HR for long runs, time spent running is the most useful measurement, so I just keep moving, fast or slow as I feel .
The main idea is to not go so hard you can't do your next day run, and to not get injured.
The advantage of the runs in terrain is it will strengthen your leg muscles more than on a flat road, so you will gain cardio vascularly and in muscle specific conditioning.
Capping at 2 or 2:10 would seem to make little difference to me, many of my long runs vary from the intended time by more than that amount anyway.
One thing I have found, and I don't know if it's particular to me or not, it takes 3 runs at a distance or time before I really feel comfortable at it. So you may expect this to be fairly hard depending on your base conditioning and weekly mileage at this time.
As for the 10% rule, many suggest it not be increased by more than 10% per 6 WEEK period, but they are referring to total weekly mileage.

"The amount of time spent at easy pace is more important than the intensity." -Jack Daniels, PhD

That has been my experience as well. Keep in mind that you don't have to actually be navigating in the terrain (other than enough to make sure you don't get hopelessly lost) to get the benefit of a long terrain session, just getting used to dealing with the footing, obstacles, whatever. Pace is pretty irrelevant as long as you are actually running and not walking. Walking the steeper ups is fine; in fact, it's probably a good thing to train since you'll likely do that in the race, too.

Other than that, the only suggestion I'd make would be to mix the distances a bit. If each week is longer than the one before, you tend to get into a "grind" mode where you're just trying to finish the run. Having a stepdown week here and there helps both physically and psychologically. Something like this:

Week 1 1:20
Week 2 1:30
Week 3 1:45
Week 4 1:30
Week 5 2:00
Week 6 1:45
Week 7 Rest

You definitely want at least 2 weeks between your longest run and the race.

For the same reasons as Dan I wouldn't base an easy run pace on HR. I'd never be able even to break into a trot at 70% of maxHR! I think the most important part is that it still feels like an easy/long pace, and that you can manage the time/distance okay. You may find that you can run at what feels like a really easy pace for a couple of hours but your HR is up around 80 or 85% of max. (Anecdotal, YMMV.)

This stuff about pacing is good news. I really have to modify my stride to a almost a shuffle to keep the HR down new 70% of MHR. It will be nice to open it up a little bit.

I'm with ebuckley in regards to dropping the time back on the 4th week. Having a relative 'recovery' week every 4th is necessary for me to minimise injury risks

I also agree with ebuckley and fletch, a "recovery" week every 4th week worked fine with me, both physically and psychologically. Increasing the "workload" over 7 weeks would be really hard.

also the 2 weeks tapering are a good idea.

ebuckley's plan sounds perfect to me ;-)

i would definately do the long run on terrain...
it makes all the difference.. even if your HR is goin too high.. you can tell if your body is struggling

i started similar sorts of runs earlier this year and my HR was really high at 1st because i wasn't used to that sort of endurance.. but gradually it reachet the aspired goal!!

a 2hr run on terrain is very diff. to a normal 2hr run!!
if your race is on terrain you'll need your body to be used to it.. even if you just run on trails in the mountains...

My estimate of a 1.75 ~ 2.5 hour finishing time posted on AP elicited some chuckles tonight at a group training session. Apparently 3+ hours is more likely. I have no chance of running three hours. However, I'll continue to train for 2 hours of running and plan on spending the balance of the race walking and deciphering the Camp Ripley contours which I have heard are quite complicated. 'Twill be fun.

I've found I can navigate for a lot longer than I can run. Longest ultra I've done is 100K and I was sure ready to stop. Yet, I have no problem going 24 hours straight (covering considerably more distance) in a ROGAINE. Walking the hills, stopping to check position, punching the controls - they all add up to enough of a break that you can keep going. I think if you can run for 2 hours on roads or trails, you'll be fine for 3 hours in the woods.

Ripley is pretty complex. There may well be a lot of time when you are not running out there. Losing contact could result in a lot of time lost.

I dont see why youd need a rest week. its not like you arent going to train that week.

but a tip you could use is, as im training for Blodslitet this fall, often when i take a long run on trails, when i come to this road (after around an hour), i´ll do some tempo down the road at around 3:15-3:30m/km for around 3km. I think that would really help you having a good speed on the race. And if you are still able to push yourself at the normal long distance pace afterwards, you´ll have something representable.