Discussion: training tips, hints, whatever
in: Orienteering; Training & Technique
Jul 9, 2009 6:01 PM
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hei attackpointers! :)
i have a big goal coming up next year and that means i am trying to get in shape without too much success i think.
as there are years and years of training experience on ap i thought i can simply ask you guys. if you have hints in general - shoot. my whole training is also available here so if you have some more time you can check it out as well! :)
looking forward to your replies and thx in advance ;)
i have a big goal coming up next year and that means i am trying to get in shape without too much success i think.
as there are years and years of training experience on ap i thought i can simply ask you guys. if you have hints in general - shoot. my whole training is also available here so if you have some more time you can check it out as well! :)
looking forward to your replies and thx in advance ;)
Jul 9, 2009 9:12 PM
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I can guess your goal by the location you have entered.
Short answer is: train on.
Short answer is: train on.
Jul 9, 2009 9:15 PM
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as i am orienteer i train for orienteering. :) and i want to make it on the team for next years woc in trondheim. to make it to the woc i need to improve my physical abilities. what i am doing or did doesnt show an effect anymore - at least thats what i think - so i need to change it.
Jul 9, 2009 9:22 PM
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I believe we have the same goals. I nearly missed qualifying for our team this year for Hungary, so I need to work on improving both technically and physically as well.
I am sure I'll see you next summer in Norway ;)
I am sure I'll see you next summer in Norway ;)
Jul 9, 2009 9:36 PM
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Problem found. 55 hours of O compaired to 235 hours of running....
Orienteer more! Based in norway, getting on a map shouldn't be a problem.
and yea, i said wee as in small :)
Orienteer more! Based in norway, getting on a map shouldn't be a problem.
and yea, i said wee as in small :)
Jul 9, 2009 9:56 PM
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yep. fit athlete can probably improve 2-5 even 7% by training hard, but avoiding that 2 min mistake on a middle distance race gives you 7% improvment right there.
Jul 10, 2009 7:01 AM
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run with maps. lift weights while reading maps. read more maps while you eat your breakfast cereal. wear maps. eat maps. buy map-patterned bedsheets.
Jul 10, 2009 7:27 AM
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ya, my name is wolfgang...
and thanks for all of the hints but ... i mean i know the monster part is to do on the o side and not on the running but i asked for getting a better runner.... so some more ideas?
and thanks for all of the hints but ... i mean i know the monster part is to do on the o side and not on the running but i asked for getting a better runner.... so some more ideas?
Jul 10, 2009 8:04 AM
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Is your strength training aimed at running faster? - i.e. does it mainly consist of dynamic power work? If not I would ditch it. From your logs it looks like you don't do enough fast running; although when you do you run quite well - its just that you have not trained for it.
Jul 10, 2009 9:46 AM
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how many hard sessions would you do? what kind of? ints, fartlek, fast temporuns?
Jul 11, 2009 1:50 PM
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Many people benefit from different approaches and just reading the book might make the difference for some. Reading logs or discussion groups on Attack Point might work for others. For instance, to understand running and training fast - look at No. 1 ranked AP "Lucky Luke". His average running speed per month is often below 5 mins/k, in February this year it was 202.66 km at 4:26. However, most would benefit more from getting a coach and a training group, and I suggest that's what you need.
Jul 11, 2009 2:59 PM
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I think the idea is that by reading a good book on training you can answer "how many hard sessions would you do? what kind of? ints, fartlek, fast temporuns?"
Jul 11, 2009 5:07 PM
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bct:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/training/tr...
There is some valuable information at that link.
There is some valuable information at that link.
Jul 13, 2009 12:57 AM
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"i can easily improve just by rading??"
NO, you have to actually DO the training routines.
In the past we have just used it as a guide, this year we did very close to the 5K-15K training program. Worked very well, we could really see improvement over several weeks.
Daniels knows what he is talking about, everyone else just steals from him and puts their own spin on it.
Only downside is it is for track and road, so you still need woods runs to build that particular strength.
NO, you have to actually DO the training routines.
In the past we have just used it as a guide, this year we did very close to the 5K-15K training program. Worked very well, we could really see improvement over several weeks.
Daniels knows what he is talking about, everyone else just steals from him and puts their own spin on it.
Only downside is it is for track and road, so you still need woods runs to build that particular strength.
Jul 13, 2009 6:23 AM
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Only downside is it is for track and road, so you still need woods runs to build that particular strength.
Agreed--and runs up and down hills. But doing a lot of the training in terrain or on trails should be easy in Trondheim, right?
On the specificity point, I think it might be more important to run in terrain than to get the mixtures of intensities right (per Daniels, or whoever). If you're really fast but can't run in the terrain, then you won't be able to take advantage of your speed. I remember Jörgen Mårtensson (1991, '95 WOC long distance gold medalist) saying that his training featured a lot of long runs in the forest. But maybe that works best once you've put in enough years of quality training to run a sub-2:20 marathon.
Agreed--and runs up and down hills. But doing a lot of the training in terrain or on trails should be easy in Trondheim, right?
On the specificity point, I think it might be more important to run in terrain than to get the mixtures of intensities right (per Daniels, or whoever). If you're really fast but can't run in the terrain, then you won't be able to take advantage of your speed. I remember Jörgen Mårtensson (1991, '95 WOC long distance gold medalist) saying that his training featured a lot of long runs in the forest. But maybe that works best once you've put in enough years of quality training to run a sub-2:20 marathon.
Jul 13, 2009 10:14 AM
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hm, sorry if I need to post in here Wolf! Specially knowing you so well as I do. I challenge anybody above to find fault in my comments. Just read wolfi's log!
All of the above is good and nice, but of ABSOLUTELY no use to you! Your problem is NOT your running ability as we have discussed so many times now! This is blindly clear on reading your log. Your running is great and your training also (maybe a tad to hard and not always carefully planned but still excellent - you need to find a new coach for this). Remember that before you left Salzburg you were one of our top cross country runners, even winning a medal at the the championships of our land. If you hit a good day and have a good run then you are capable of such fast times, maybe not the same as Dani Hubman or Kerschi - but well up there.
Your problem stems from two areas that you really need to work on.
1) You HAVE to improve your technical abilities. Moving to Norway is a great step in that direction. I have seen how good (if everything goes right) your OL results can be. Unfortunately this only happens once out of 50 races. But this is where you need to improve. Run with more maps, run more terrain.
2) The most important thing, the hardest thing you will need to do is change your mental state. Anybody who reads your log can see that your motivation and mind set changes on a daily basis. Your negativity is YOUR MAIN STUMBLING BLOCK. To put it in simple words, you are your own worst enemy. You need to change this. You need to be more positive and less hard on yourself. Let yourself learn from your mistakes, and use them to make you stronger. Don't look for the problem elsewhere, but find it in yourself. Stop complaining and start doing. Become more constant in your head, more stable.
If you are able to solve these two areas in the next year, then you will have a reasonable chance of making the team. I hope that you can do it - I wish it for you!
All of the above is good and nice, but of ABSOLUTELY no use to you! Your problem is NOT your running ability as we have discussed so many times now! This is blindly clear on reading your log. Your running is great and your training also (maybe a tad to hard and not always carefully planned but still excellent - you need to find a new coach for this). Remember that before you left Salzburg you were one of our top cross country runners, even winning a medal at the the championships of our land. If you hit a good day and have a good run then you are capable of such fast times, maybe not the same as Dani Hubman or Kerschi - but well up there.
Your problem stems from two areas that you really need to work on.
1) You HAVE to improve your technical abilities. Moving to Norway is a great step in that direction. I have seen how good (if everything goes right) your OL results can be. Unfortunately this only happens once out of 50 races. But this is where you need to improve. Run with more maps, run more terrain.
2) The most important thing, the hardest thing you will need to do is change your mental state. Anybody who reads your log can see that your motivation and mind set changes on a daily basis. Your negativity is YOUR MAIN STUMBLING BLOCK. To put it in simple words, you are your own worst enemy. You need to change this. You need to be more positive and less hard on yourself. Let yourself learn from your mistakes, and use them to make you stronger. Don't look for the problem elsewhere, but find it in yourself. Stop complaining and start doing. Become more constant in your head, more stable.
If you are able to solve these two areas in the next year, then you will have a reasonable chance of making the team. I hope that you can do it - I wish it for you!
This discussion thread is closed.