Discussion: ORIENTEERING SHOES

I've tried various shoes while orienteering, but never an orienteering shoe per se, unless you count 'Icebugs' but they are too heavy and bulky for me for general use. My ideal shoe would be like an lightweight Oasics 'racing/trainer' with the flexible top that laces form-fit to your foot, maybe with the sole and toe beefed up just a little, ( I like to rely on nimbleness and intuition for foot protection) and spikes for traction that don't feel funny when they hit pavement. I've found most trail shoes too heavy, cumbersome, awkward.

What shoe fits the bill in your estimation?

Any true orienteering shoe meets the above requirements. Jalas, Silva, and VJ seem to be the most popular in North America. The best make and model is very much a personal decision and you have to try them on to see if you like them. Vendors at A-meets will usually let you at least jog around in the grass with them.

Not all icebug models are 'heavy/bulky'. I race in Olway Tiger and train in Icebug MR2 extremes.

For the trail/grass (and Rogaines) runs I use Salomon XA Pro 3D. I stick with them for the last 3 years and am very pleased. They last for one year with average of 1000 miles. Then I just buy other pair ...

Ordinary socer shoes are good for orenteering, at least cheaper and freely available in any sport store.

Did one discovery that Asix 2100 road shoes are good on muddy trails and melted show, close to NB 837 model in traction. Actually got blister on the right foot, on the top, under laces. Maybe because was wearing only one pair of socks. Found them as a good candidate for rogain shoes. Another model tested, was Mizuno Ascend trail, little bit hard outsole would not be very fun to run on paved roads, but works well for trails. Mine pair has manufacturing defect, and I am going to change them today.

I wore soccer cleats once for orienteering before I bought O shoes. The problem I found was that they had no cleats in the middle of the shoe and I kept sliding sideways on smooth logs. Probably a pretty unique situation, but cleat placement is something to watch out for.

you right, in normal o shoes you can run more aggressively - soccer shoes slide on wet logs and rocks because they dont have metal spikes, so watch out.
Adidas Traxion (different models) has very siutable outsole and spikes, close to O shoes.

I ran in soccer cleats way back. On harder gorund (trails, etc) I found that the cleats increased my chances of twisting an ankle - the extra 1/2 - 3/4 inch off the ground made a lot of difference, especially on side hills. Also, as they are harder material, traction was not good, they tended to slide more on rocks, etc.

The softer sole material on O shoes provides better overall traction and the thinner soles don't add to the chances of ankle injuries.

My last 2 pairs of O shoes are studded - the clicking on rock and pavement was a bit distracting at first, but I got over that.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Since my attendance at A-meets has been extremely sporadic, is there any other good ways to buy orienteering shoes? Or maybe this will be incentive to travel to A-meet...are multiple brands ussually represented?

Well, you can mail order them from various suppliers, but be prepared to send them back. No substitute for trying them on.

While I am only a novice Orienteerer I do quite a bit of adventure racing. I've just purchased a pair of Merrell Overdrive shoes. Vibram sole, quick lace system, and two things that are AMAZING. 1) there is an internal grid system in the fore foot that literally pumps water out of two little holes in the front sole. 2) built in slot in the mid sole for gater straps. I've run on the muddy trails three times so far and they are great.

For longer O-runs (2-3 hours and up to 24) I use Sarva Duotech shoes. They are much softer than regular O-shoes, have a mesh top and metal spikes.

Many orienteers don't bother with gaiters (the distances are too short arnd there is less of an emphasis on pushing through vegetation than some AR course designers provide...), so number 2 is irrelevant. And the soles on those really don't look like they have enough grip for orienteering. I'm sure they're excellent trail running shoes and probably quite good for AR too.

The previous Sarva trail runners were for me a good compromise (I wear them orienteering and for (short) AR races), but they screwed up the last redesign and I don't currently have a good recommendation.

By the way, speedy, if you google 'Sarva Duotech' the first hit is your training log here...

Wow ... no comments.

I don't think you can overstate the value of a true cleated shoe for orienteering. Trail shoes work fine for AR, but at orienteering speeds you really need the extra grip.

Vibram is good and sticky on trails and rocks but I've never seen any spikes with it. Vibram sucks on pavement or other unnatural surfaces though, so if you needed to run across a road/sidewalk etc to get from one spot to another you wouldn't want vibram, esp. not in winter. I have a pair of merrells that I wear to work sometimes and had a spectacular wipeout when my merrells failed to grip on the metal step when leaping onto a train that was about to close its doors and leave. I had a coffee in one hand, briefcase in the other and I did a forward falling 360 from the step into the car of a packed commuter train. When I stood up and turned around the whole train was staring at me so I did the only thing I could - I threw up my arms as if in victory, loudly noted that I didn't spill the coffee and went and hid on the second level of the train.

Well, I have to add my 2 cents here, from a different point of view (medical background available if you do not trust this potentially unreliable source - don't get fooled by the name!).
Orienteering shoes are about as crappy for your feet as soccer shoes are. They have no arch support whatsoever, they have no torsional stability and most of them bend in the wrong place (they end closer to the arch then where your foot actually does bend at the metatarsal joints). In other words, they are a recipe for disaster. They can create and feed a lot of foot and lower leg injuries. So Wadd has the right idea here: train in a shoe that has more support (like the Icebugs) even if you have to sacrifice some of the weight, and keep the O-shoes for racing only.
Voila

It was in this sense that the previous Sarva model was better than the current one - it had closer to a straight last (now replaced with a curvier one) and was better able to withstand the use of orthotics (which provide the arch support for me).

Mmh, my feet are probably really screwed up... the best therapy for most of my injuries was to put all my high tech running shoes in the basement, and run x.c for several days only with my VJ... Maybe I am a stone age human who feels only well with the most elementary.

"Maybe I am a stone age human who feels only well with the most elementary."

I thought we had already established that ;-)

:-)

Because of the lack of arch support and my falling dancer's arch (ballet dancers have told me I have good dancing feet, or at least did, picked the wrong "sport" I guess) I pretty much always run in Superfeet. I refer to them as over the counter orthodic and have made a big difference to the fit of an Orienteering shoe.
Available in finer running stores everywhere, as well as the Running Room.

Well, if we are going to talk about brands - hey Eddie, you're watching?!!! SOme of the best insoles I have found for my office (I do sell quite a bit of over-the-counter orthotics) is Sole. They are distributed by Edge marketing in Calgary, and they have the biggest arch support i have found so far on the market. If you have really flat feet, you can heat them up and mould them so the arch is not too high. They also retail for less the Superfeet and I believe the big chain Mark's Warehouse carries them. Just a suggestion.

the best thing to do, of course, is to go and see Barbie in person at "The Sole Mate", the next time you are in Vernon.
Eddie, bring on the wrath ;-)

Does anyone use, or have tried the INOV-8 shoes?. My achilles are in bad shape, sore and inflamed. VJs and Jalas O shoes seem to make it worse. Now that it has been mentioned, I always felt slow in O shoes, I think because of the lack of flexibility in the forefoot.
My big worry with non O shoes is their lack of durability in the uppers, the rocky terrain in the NE rips up O shoes bad.
The best O shoe I ever found was Silva Super Grip. The color was wierd for an O shoe, white with lavender and purple highlights, but they were comfortable, had good grip and were fairly durable (but the uppers finally ripped on my pair.)

I've had a pair of INOV-8's for several months now, and I am pretty happy with them. They're designed for fell running. I bought them intending to use them for orienteering, but then Andy Dale gave me a pair of Walsh's the didn't fit him, so now I use those for orienteering instead. (Too bad I didn't get some of Andy's speed, too!) They have a much better tread than the INOV-8's, which are more prone to clog up with mud.

The INOV-8's have been an excellent trail/off-trail shoe for me, but they don't have metal cleats, and they don't have much upper support. The sole is also somewhat soft, also without much support. That's fine for me, but you should try them on for yourself. I find them very comfortable, and there is plenty of tread to climb a muddy slope, at least until they get clogged up.

After posting my reply, I see that I didn't address some of the concerns. The INOV-8 is NOT a heavy duty shoe. The uppers are a light mesh, adequate for awhile, but I'm expecting them to wear out long before the sole. They won't stand up to running through miles of heavy underbrush. They do have plenty of flexibility, which I like, but if you're looking for more support, this shoe won't provide it. The soles are relatively soft, which is great for Oregon, but probably will wear down quicker on rocks.

So, if you're looking for a long lasting shoe, this probably isn't it. If you're looking for a light, comfortable running shoe, this could work for you.

I always felt slow in O shoes

O shoes don't make me feel particularly fast (they don't make me feel slow, either), but there's no arguing with the watch. I did some test runs a few years back and found that on steep terrain, O shoes are worth 15-30 seconds/K over trail shoes.

Sometimes i feel as if i can defy gravity with o shoes on a steep hill. then the pain of the hill climb catches up.
I like my jalas but they are starting to become de-vulcanized but i guess that has something to do with the cactus in the area

"Andy Dale gave me a pair of Walsh's the didn't fit him"
Never heard of Walshs,. Where are they from, any online pics and pricing?

Walsh is a British maker of shoes originally intended for fell running. I've seen them sold at Australian orienteering events as well. Not enough support for me.
http://www.alpineworld.com/trail/walsh.html
http://www.walshsports.co.uk/running.asp - this appears to be temporarily down.

I wonder if they could be convinced to put some studs on those puppies? I've found that non-studded shoes simply don't work in muddy conditions when you also have to cross rock and/or logs.

15 - 30 s/k? Wow. That would be like trimming 1:15 to 2:30 off of a 5 k - something I did after a year of training. Guess I should just get new shoes. I wonder if this works for golf too....

Well, come to the Flying Pig and hope for rain and you'll see how it's possible!

Definitely possible to do at the Pig in rain. I stupidly forgot my O-shoes at the hotel while going to the Pig a couple of years back and had to run in regular trail running shoes - yikes.... One step forward, 2 steps sliding backwards, and so on....

I just had a look at the Inov8 catalogue and they now make an O-shoe with metal dobbs. maybe they will be more durable than their fell shoe. The sole certainly looks like it would have plenty of grip. Anyone tried their O-shoe?