Discussion: Axis Gear "Atak Pant" Review

Over the last few years Axis Gear has made jerseys for several orienteering clubs in Canada and the US. They have a cool max jersey (used by GHO, GVOC, FWOC to name a few) and also more recently a sublimated jersey (check out DVOA, YOA, GHO for what you can do with designs). I personally think the sublimation is the future as our sport will look more like cycling and cross country skiing. There is no limit to the colours and designs you can put on a sublimated jersey. Anyway, one of the stumbling blocks for placing a club order with Axis Gear has been the lack of orienteering pants. Axis Gear makes black “Dezert Tights” and an adventure racing “Scramble Pant” but nothing was available or suitable for warm weather orienteering. So last autumn the owner of Axis Gear asked for some ideas/feedback from a few Canadian National Team members about orienteering pant design…

Well over the last two weeks I have been testing a prototype of the new Axis Gear “Atak Pant”. The name (a variation on AttackPoint perhaps?) is as cool as the product. Similar to the Trimtex Extreme pant design they are black base fabric and have quick dry mesh inserts (lighter than the Extreme pant cool max inserts) behind the waist, in the crotch and behind the knee. The inserts apparently come in about 10 different colours for clubs to match to their jerseys. The Atak Pant comes in many different options:
- 3 /4 length and full length
-optional back waist band pocket (for extra compass)
-optional front rip stop from the knee to ankle
-optional front DUAL rip stop
-optional light weight Interra Fleece (flat facing, brushed inside for cold weather or Nordic)

So one pant does it all.

Cost: $59.95 for 3/4 length, $69.95 for full length (CAD) Team pricing is available for large orders.
Availability on line April 15th, custom availability April 1st, apparently orders are being taken now.


OK so my review…

I tested a pair that was 3 /4 length and had a mix of cool max and mesh inserts (since this was a prototype). OK I’ll admit it has been a while since I wore 3 /4 length orienteering pants. They were considered un-cool and laughed at by the “younger generation” in the early 90’s. But now that same younger crowd here in Canada say that the 3 /4 pant are all the rage in Europe and are cool again. So I believe them and if these Atak Pants are any indication I agree they are much better than the old style pant. You don’t get the ‘tugging’ around the knee when running and the knee is never exposed to branches. The material in these pants is different from the European orienteering suits. At first I was concerned it would rip but after a half dozen or so runs in the woods with them there were no rips but my legs are a bit torn up (deliberately running through crappy undergrowth to test the pants is not my idea of fun). The material seems a bit lighter which is good for our hot summers but also appears a little more stretchy which might be good to reduce rips from sticks. On the down side to that there appeared to be a little bit of ‘pilling’ of the material in the knee area at first but it seems very minor. I actually rubbed a stick against it for a few minutes to see if it got worse – it didn’t. This being a prototype and with the company interested in my feedback so they could make changes I was looking to be picky – I don’t anticipate this being an issue. The stitching in the lower seam around the knee came un-down in some places. This was the only place where triple/quadruple stitching wasn’t used in the pants so I mentioned that to the company and I understand that will be corrected in the final version. The waist has a one inch or so thick waist band and the same nice draw string that is in their Dezert tights. So keeping the pants up won’t be a problem in rain. So overall I believe the Atak Pant is a good product – cool look, cool name, Canadian built with all fabrics from the US so it is truly a North American made product. It is made of a good and light material. The inserts make for nice running (no rubbing/tugging on the knee) and waist band is perfect. Overall I give these an 8/10 and given that they are made right here in North America we won’t need to worry about customs, duty, large minimum orders and the annoying international shipping.

Yikes, a commercial!

Sign me up!

Bring samples to The Pig, please. A little more expensive then Trimtex Extreme pants.

Hammer, you got me to their website and now I am interested in the Nav 360 bike map mount. Any thoughts on that product?

Well since I was accused of posting a commercial above (which is not how it was intended) I am a little hesitant to comment on the Nav360 but anyway you aksed...

I got one of the prototypes of the Nav360 two? years ago to try out. Based on that protoype it is a nice entry level bike map holder. I find that when it rotates it is a little jerky. Not as smooth as the Nordenmark tray that GO Orienteering sells (no commercial intended - now Eddie has me paranoid). I believe there have been changes to the 360 prototype. Bash uses the Nav360 and maybe she could add a few more thoughts on it. The majority of adventure racers don't use a map holder - any map holder is better than none. My AR team uses the Nordenmark map holder from Go Orienteering.

If you buy a map holder consider using it at the DuO series hosted by Joe Brautigam (see other thread). All proceeds to the US team. Help the US reduce their costs of attending WOC and training camps this year... (oops, strike that! Commercial$$). ;-)

The U.S. Team, like USOF and all USOF clubs, is a NPO (more like a charity, really).

Yeah, I almost sent you an e-mail Hammer, so you wouldn't have to post but figured there have been other conversations about specific products.
I currently don't use a bike map holder and although I don't think I've made any mistakes because of it, I am sure I have wasted a lot of time and more than once looked up just in time to see a major obstacle, or correct just before going into a ditch.

Promotion of the DuO, with or without a map holder, is happily accepted. More for the Team!

I've used the Axis Gear Nav 360 for two seasons of adventure racing. I've never used any other bike map holder to compare it with, so my "commercial" can only say that it's WAY safer and quicker to navigate with a bike map holder than having a map case dangling around your neck, which is what I did before. (That was a bit dangerous on a mucky snowmobile trail in the middle of the night after 36 hours without sleep.) Having the map in front of you all the time allows you to keep an eye on it and watch more closely for features and changes in direction. Normally our team has a rule that you don't try anything for the first time in a race (food, gear, clothing, etc.), but I did that with both my bike map holder and a ski-O map holder, and in each case, it improved things immensely right away.

One problem with bike map holders in general is that you have to compromise between the size of the map you'd like to see vs. the size of map that starts to bother you on your handlebars. The second version of the Nav 360 was smaller than the first, and I suspect that was the reason. In adventure racing, it doesn't take long to ride off the map when you are looking at such a small area. It's not a big deal to fold or cut your map, but it's always nicer not to open your map case in a rainstorm to shuffle the maps around. A racer friend removed my Nav 360 map case when he borrowed it, and came up with some complex pattern of elastic cords that allowed him to use his regular flexible map case and unroll it in various directions like a scroll. He was still able to make use of the rotation of the map holder.

A final note: the version of the Nav 360 on the web site is brand new this year. The new handlebar attachment mechanism was invented by someone I know who is extremely clever about his gear, and when I saw his prototype, I thought that it would be a great way to create more space on my relatively narrow handlebars, e.g. if I wanted to put on two Cateye lights instead of one. But I've only used the old attachment mechanism, so I can't vouch for this one.

I use a map holder designed and built by Jerry and Duncan from Missing Link, a Seattle AR team. The advantage of their design (which has been adopted by some top teams) is that the board tilts in addition to swiveling, and it is easily detachable, should the need arise to take it off the bike.

I like the Axis Gear Nav360-2, though, because it is elevated closer to eye level and above the handlebar-light-mounting zone.

I just wanted to say that before Hammer gets scared off and stops giving us his inside information, I actually really appreciate it. Despite it looking like an advertisement, it is coming from one of our very own (who stands to benefit nothing from future sales as far as I know) and not from the company who is actually selling it. It is this kind of peer-to-peer recommendation that this site can facilitate and which is so useful to fellow athletes. It is hard enough to find quality Orienteering clothes on this continent, so if Hammer has a review of a potential product, I would hope that he would post it here for the benefit of the entire community. And if no one is interested, it will certainly drop under the current discussion pretty quickly and no harm will be done.

So GHO uses Axis Gear? They aren't a retailer who stands to be making a profit off of future sales of these pants. Just because someone uses a product doesn't mean that they can't recommend it to a friend. In fact what kind of recommendation would it be if they didn't use the product?

ummm... better check this out, too. Scandalous!

An unsolicited review of a specific product by a specific vendor is, by definition, a commercial. Had someone asked "hey, can anyone recommend a good quality pair of pants?" and got a reply here I wouldn't consider a reply an advertsement. AG sponsors a number of GHO events and supplies product and thats just fine - its a great arrangement for both, and AG has some fine products...I have a few myself. But if AG wants to advertize on AP they can pay Ken for a banner like the google ones at the bottom. AP is one of the few places in this world that is not totally overrun with ads and product placement everywhere you look. I'd just hate to see it go downhill. If Ken wants to sell our eyeballs to pay for the content thats up to him, but I personally don't want to be subjected to subversive advertising disguised as "community service" if it can be avoided.

Unfortunately, Axis Gear has not sponsored any DVOA events or provided any consideration to DVOA members for endorsement or warm and fuzzy feelings. But, I like them anyway :)

Sure Orienteering clubs can be considered specific vendors since they sell club uniforms, but do you honestly think that GHO stands to benefit in any way from this review? Certainly Mike isn't expecting us to all go out and buy GHO uniforms after recommending an Axis Gear product. If Axis Gear had put Mike up to this recommendation of their product then I would agree that it is an advertisement, but as long as it is simply a peer review and has nothing to with the company that makes the product I cannot see how it can be classified as an advertisement.

No Axis Gear didn't put me up to this and no I am not sponsored by them. Axis Gear gave me a pair to check out and provide feedback to them. I liked the pants, noticed there were some issues and I have noted that in my review and thought information on this product would be of interest to AttackPoint readers so I provided it. My hope is that more orienteers will wear the newer clothing by Axis Gear, Trimtex, Noname, other cool max or equivalent products etc. because the sport does have a major image problem. Anyway, the only thing I got from doing this review was the cost of $5 of gas money driving to woods, about 20 scratches on my legs and accusations of "subversive advertising". But I still think it is important to tell people about events, products, etc. on AttackPoint just like this, this, and this

Without getting into a detailed analysis of the rights and wrongs of mentioning, unprompted, a newly released product of interest to orienteers in this forum, the subject line of Hammer's post clearly stated what it was about and anyone who clicked through to actually read it did so voluntarily.

Just coming to this website is voluntary. It still doesn't change the fact of the matter in posts 1 and 2 above.

Mike, Thank you very much for providing an informative review on a new orienteering product being produced right here in North America. Thank you for carefully labelling the title of the thread (Axis Gear "Atak Pant" Review) to make it very clear that the content of the thread was the review of a product.

Eddie ... relax, man.

I agree with eddie - enough of the useful orienteering-relevant posts, let's get back to discussing attack badgers and similar topics that entertain 9 year olds.

Yes, thanks for the clear subject heading and relevant info, Mike.

Axis Gear doesn't have Nike's marketing budget, so you won't see banners or pop-up ads promoting their products. Axis Gear is mostly just Norm, and Norm has been very supportive of the sports of orienteering and adventure racing in Ontario. He seeks suggestions from racers, develops products that we ask for, gets them tested by credible users like Hammer, and stands behind them. A friend borrowed my Nav 360 bike map holder and broke off a part. I e-mailed Axis Gear to buy a new part. Not only did Norm refuse payment, the new part was in my mailbox three days later. It's a good company that supports our sport at a time when we're not exactly being chased by legions of companies eager for our business.

Personally, my one pair of O pants from Sweden are getting a bit threadbare, and I'm happy to learn that good quality pants are available locally. Those of you who have seen me in my old O pants might be even happier. ;-)

Why, thats very astute, Thomas. Yes, lets talk about orienteering-relevant things. LIke sports drinks. I've tried several, and I have to say that Gatorade (tm) is the best of the lot. Especially the new "Fierce" flavors. Accept no substitutes. Drink Fierce!

But why stop there. Orienteers eat, right? I recommend that orienteers eat Nature Valley brand (tm) Granola Bars. They're Grrrrrrrrr-ATE!

Provacative or petulant? Decide for yourself.

To be fair though, thats all a bit off topic. Visit the Trimtex (tm) website for additional orienteering clothing selections. Its all good.

Maybe we need a seperate discussion section for product reviews so that people don't mistakenly click on any in the jumble of Attackpoint discussion if they weren't specifically looking for a review.

I can understand Eddie's concern for the integrity of Attackpoint, but I also think that many users would find the discussion of various Orienteering products quite useful. Perhaps it would be best to have such discussion relegated to a clearly marked subsection of the discussion board so that only people who are interested in such discussion will be exposed to it.

While we are on the topic, perhaps it is time to start breaking down the discussion board into more organized sections. It seems that various event discussion, training discussion, and attack badger discussion might be best seperated off so that people can find exactly what they are looking for without having to browse through irrelevant posts.

I have been particularly fond of Attackpoint's basic setup, and I think that the single page discussion section has worked really well through all the years of growth that the site has seen, but now that there are so many users and so many different discussions, perhaps it is time to break things up a bit...

Mike, thanks for the post. I have been looking for new O pants and these look like they may work. You might suggest they add a small secure key pocket and perhaps a larger pocket for extra gear/bars etc perhaps as options.

I prefer Dockers. Nice pants!

I still like my Kampela pants, when I can get them. I wish that one of the O-vendors would import them. When the exchange rate was good, they were in the $20 range.

Jeff, I like my Kampela pants, too. Although they're pretty shredded from use. My favorite orienteering pants, among all the ones I've raced in, were from Ultrasport. They were really thin, and the fabric felt like a cross between regular O-suit material and very thin flannel--very lightweight and comfortable, but not very durable, as it turned out, not that any O-pants I've tried are. Another thing I liked about them was that they were pretty short-waisted, whereas other O-pants have a lower crotch seam and thus tend to bind or drag on the legs more.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Axis Gear pants.

I still don't understand bike-mounted map holders. Seems like the chest-attached ski-O table is so much more stable relative to the athlete's body. Of course, it also scores much heavier on the dork factor... complement it with a headlamp and a tank top, man...

Wouldn't a chest-mounted map holder tend to bump into the handlebars as you go over bumps (plus, in at least my case, cause greater probability of injury when you fall off the bike)?

The biggest problem with a chest-mounted map holder for biking would be that it would block more of your field of vision. Even with the map on the handlebars, I can't see what gear I'm in, or where the switch for my handlebar light is. When I'm biking in tricky terrain, I like to see as much of the ground as possible. So far, I've never felt that the handlebar map holder compromised my safety, but if it were closer to my face like the ski-O map holder, there would be a bigger risk of not noticing a rock, hole or root.

Hi all:
Sorry for all this confusion but I do want to clear something up... I just got online to check out Attackpoint because Mike said it was a really good discussion group and I remember checking it out about 3 years ago but not since. He asked me if it was okay to put a review on the board of the pants and I said sure and gave him some techincal specs for the review like pricing. (which perhaps we need to revise?)

We have been selling custom tops to Oing clubs over the last couple of years and wanted to add a pant to the line up. So I asked Mike along with a few others to give me feedback on existing designs and the Atak Pant was born. I guess I should have posted a question on this board in the first place when we started the design process. (next time!)

We benchmarked the Trimtex Extreme pant (so, yes, it looks a heck of a lot like it but we think better!) but added some stronger stitching in the knee and a pocket to the front. As well, you can customize the materials and colours.

Now that I've seen Attackpoint in action :) I will in fact see if we can buy a banner and support the site too.

For all the trouble that I've stirred up, I'm going send the first three people to email me a pair of tester pants on the condition that they donate $25 to the Attackpoint site. (honour system here folks) Also one pair to Eddie so you can test them out for me too and hopefully recommend them. (won't be ready til April though...)

Thanks all for your feedback and if there is any feedback good or bad on our products, please send it over! We rely on our users to help us develop products.

P.S. the Nav 360 (2006) is awesome! :) I'll donate one of those too to Attackpoint and Ken can auction it off to the highest bidder. String attached is that they have to write a review for the site! Good or bad, I can take it..... I hope!

Thanks all that emailed me!
And the lucky three are:
Nevin French
Peter Gagarin
Glen Tryson
Thanks for your donation to AP and I'll confirm shipping/sizes with you on a separate email.

P.S. we have a basic pant coming out too! Stay tuned... maybe we'll do a product draw again. (Do I see a worst Oing suit picture contest coming??)

Well done Norm! Good to see you supporting O'ing at it's finest. I take it that Axis gear won't be unveiling an "O suit" anytime soon? ;-)

I'd like to take this opportunity to endorse NO LOGO, a fine piece of brand oriented literature. If you buy stuff you should read this. While I believe that advertising is both ubiquitous and obnoxious I can't beleive the overreaction to the pants posting. Attackpoint is not some purist dreamland of milk and honey. It's a website, a damned good one on which people talk about stuff and sometimes stuff they might buy. Give Hammer a break.

You're right, its not a dreamland anymore. Why do you suppose that is?

Salaam Alaikum.
Peace on the streets.
Let's stop the hatin'.
All together now, "Kumbaya..."

While we're waiting for detente, I need to get me some of those fine pants...

I need this pants too!!! Really, do I ?! Yes, I do, No I don't ... Whatever, this is just a personal preference.

hey, can anyone recommend a good quality pair of pants?

Sounds like half on the orienteers in North-East are running without pants in the woods. Eddie, are you coming to the Pig?

OH GEES! now I see what I have started... A while ago Wadd told us he was going to review the pants from Axis. THen we didn't hear a thing, so I presonally asked him to post his comments (FOR OUR OWN BENEFIT). So really, I should take all the balme for Wadd. Never thought it would get taken the wrong way, I was just interested and thought other people would too.
Sorry all, Mea Culpa.