Discussion: Course lengths

With the variety of different kinds of races in the US, I have been wondering how to go about determining appropriate course lengths/winning times.

At WOC, the standards for the main WOC disciplines are well known and typically achieved:

--Sprint: "12-15 minutes, preferably the lower part of the interval."
--Middle: "30-35" minutes
--Long: "90-100" minutes

Winning times generate IOF world ranking scores of around 1400.

International course planners generally do a pretty good job devising courses of the appropriate length because there are enough data points of the elite runners' speeds through relevant terrain.

My question pertains to non-WC and WOC races.

What should the winning times/distances be?

In North America we typically don't attract the world elite, although the COCs did feature Holger Hott, who peaked at #2 in the world with an IOF ranking of 5234. Typically we don't get runners like that here. The top NA male runner right now is Patrick who has a ranking of 4378. I think that would mean he would be expected to be about 22% back of the winner in a given event.

To make the math easier, let's just say the top NA runners are expected to be about 25% back in any race.

So, my question is--are we supposed to set courses for us (North Americans) or Tero? Basically, it is the difference between a 32 minute winning time on a M21 middle course and a 40 minute one.

Maybe the rules for this are spelt out somewhere in the USOF/COF books, but it seems like there may be different interpretations. I must profess ignorance, but I would like to know what the sentiment is.

USOF guidelines suggest basing the winning time off a 100-point runner for that course. Therefore, a middle (formerly "short") course in the US should see Blue winning times in the low 30's and sprints should be under 15. I see quite a few middle courses that are close to that, but course setters seem to consistently make the sprints too long. I think there's a very big difference between how you run a 12-minute vs. 20-minute event. Setting an 18-minute sprint cheats the general competitor population out of that experience. Since the vast majority of us will never compete in a World Cup sprint, I don't see the point in making them longer (except maybe at Team Trials).

Winning times for USOF are spelled out in the competition "Rules" found in Robin S's Virtual Binder.

Specific rule regarding length of courses is found in section 24, specifically, here. I'm not sure whether sprints are covered (yet) in the rules; I didn't go looking, but they may be addressed elsewhere. They're a relatively recently adopted format, thanks to promotion by PG and members of the US Team.

USOF rules always seem to be a work in progress; anyone willing to spend time on a committee reviewing and suggesting revisions to them would be welcome, I'm sure.

Wow, lots of updates since I last set courses for an A-meet (which was only 2 years ago). I stand corrected about the Middle winning times.

Somewhat off-topic, I find the rule mandating a manned station with food and water on ultra-long a bit disappointing. Most endurance sports are moving away from the "supported" model and towards having (or even requiring) competitors carry their own supplies. I'm not sure why orienteering is so recalcitrant about this. Anything that makes putting on a meet more difficult limits the supply of meets. That's fine if there's a good reason for it (for example, the rule that control sites should be vetted), but anybody heading out on an ultra-long should be tough enough to carry some water with them.

Eric--you might still be right about the middle (and I completely agree with your thoughts about sprints.)

USOF rule 24.6.1.b says: "The competition times for a top international orienteer should match the winning times given by the current IOF Rules for a World Orienteering Championships Middle Distance Qualification Race"

The IOF standard for a middle quali is 25 minutes. With my 125% adjustment factor, that implies a winning time of ~32 for a top US orienteer. So, you're low 30s estimate is right, isn't it?

I won't agree with you about the water issue, but that's not something I personally want to discuss.

Don't start the water discussion again. It's been done. (Earlier this year, even.) :-)

The Rules, Section 24 could certainly use a re-write to reflect the fact that the standard IOF events are Sprint/Middle/Long. A nice addition would be a single table with winning times/distances for Sprint, Middle, Multi-day/Classic, Long, and Ultra-Long.

Don't start the water discussion again.

Oh, come on now! Rehashing old themes is what we do around here ;)

Seriously, I don't know how I missed the previous thread on water stops. No need to rekindle as I think it's pretty complete.

Here's the full list (M21 Open)
Event Min Max
Sprint 12 20
Middle (Q) 20 30
Middle (F) 30 40
Relay 40 50
Long (Q) 50 60
Multi Day 60 70
Long (F) 70 90
Classic* 90 110
Ultra Long 110 150

Q = Qualification Race, F = Final.
* European usage of the term

Eoin, does this list reflect your opinion, and/or are you quoting a source? If so, what source?

...Rehashing old themes is what we do around here ;) ...

Speaking of old themes and files, a Scandinavian friend sent me this funny clip with English sub-titles, showing an early Norwegian orienteer learning about file access.