Discussion: Australian team selection races

William Howkins showed a very strong performance especially on the long course today. I wonder if this result may bring him on the Australian team.

Possible but unlikely. The likely first three in the team (Julian Dent, Simon Uppill, Dave Shepherd) are already in Europe and the likely fourth (Kerrin Rattray) didn't run yesterday because of an injury. Beyond that the most likely possibilities for the fifth spot are Matt Parton, William, or leaving it unfilled and only taking four. Neither Rob Walter nor Rob Preston (first and second yesterday) are available.

If the fifth spot is filled, whoever fills it will almost certainly run the long and nothing else, which will work in William's favour, but Matt is nine years younger which is likely to be a positive for him.

One thing I'm prepared to say with confidence is that I will not be selected (although, assuming the speculation above is well-founded, I got closer yesterday to those who may be than I was expecting to).

would William have a chance of making the US team if he so chose to?

I expect he'd be the first chosen (but you have to be a citizen to be eligible and he's not).

Blair's probably right on both counts: Current USA Rankings.
Both Boris Granovskiy and Eric Bone (at least) would both be pretty competitive for 'first selection' at this point.

And US team trials are this upcoming weekend in PA.

rumour has it there will be a VERY surprising selection

whats the rumour?

dave lotty first leg of the relay

i AM surprised!

i'm not

I haven't seen a link anywhere, so...

Suncoast Classic & Australian WOC Selection Trials Results

im sworn to secrecy but you will see

so what was the big secret?
seemed like pretty reasonable selections to me

i didnt make it, i thought it was obvious?

From http://www.orienteering.asn.au/:

"The full team is:

"Men: Julian Dent, Kerrin Rattray, Dave Shepherd, Simon Uppill

"Women: Jo Allison, Grace Elson, Kathryn Ewels, Jasmine Neve, Vanessa Round

"Reserves have also been named, being William Hawkins (who lives in the US and recently returned for the selection trials in Tasmania) and Anna Sheldon."

yeah good team, though i think its ridiculous that robbie cant run

Go feet

Why can't he run?

He's getting paid to help the other runners to perform at their best...

Still don't see the problem. Surely, other sports have coach-athletes? Or is he on the selection committee?

Nah he is officially Orienteering Australia 'Head Coach' (is that right?). I can technically see the conflict of interest but not real sure it would be a problem in practice.

Well, if the conflict of interest is deemed to be that major, then I should think he wouldn't be allowed to race in the selection races at all? (This is really none of my business, so you can feel free to tell me to piss off. I am just curious about the process and the reasoning behind it.)

glenn has got it spot on, in practice, with Robbie, it probably wouldn't be a problem. But when OA wanted to employ somebody in that position they decided that they didn't want them put in that situation with that possible conflict of interest so it was written in to the contract. I think that is a reasonable thing to do?

Its not just a selection race, it is a National League event and Robbie was competing for the NSW Stingers. Do you also think that Rob Walter shouldn't have been allowed to race as he wasn't trying out for the team? Essentially they both made the same decision that they were not going to try out for the team although for different reasons...

The main reason he cant be in the team s that part of his job is selector which is a pretty major conflict of interest.

Fair enough. That's a pretty clear conflict of interest.
For a couple of years, we had separate start blocks at selection races for people who were actively trying out for the team and for others, to avoid following issues and stuff, but I think we've done away with that.

oh yeah of course he shouldn't as a selector - im sure someone could have been found to fill his selector spot.
i know he made a decision and should stick by it but it sucks that he will be in Czech (as part of his role) and not be able to run when he is clearly the next pick for the team.
wasnt having a whinge bout more just venting disappointment

Czech wasnt part of his original role (the HP Manager and WOC Coach are different positions, but they can be the same person, as in this case), it is one he inherited.

Would he have run so well if he was eligible??? :)

Yeh agree with you lazydave, it is a shame he will be there and we wont have all the spots full in the classic but at the same time i reckon it would be pretty hard to be helping everyone else out before their race going to all the meetings etc and still prepare for your own race. if it wasnt hard we wouldnt need a coach.

We (Boris/USA) still do have separate start blocks. What we've done recently is drop our fancy start-order seeding and gone to random, which makes following possibilities more random, rather than seeded in a WOC-like fashion.

A reason for separate start block for Trialers and non Trialers is so that an F21 can't just follow a fast M35+ (they run the same course), and similarly, and M21-US can't, by luck of the draw, simply follow a fast Canadian, or, say, Will, to a place on the US team. (I presume most countries don't have the problem of having _many_ visitors who are faster than the fastest locals...)

I've done the combined manager/competitor job for quite a few World Cups. It's doable as long as nothing really goes wrong but difficult if something does - and that's without any coaching being involved. Certainly on, say, a day with a middle distance qualification and final you've got better things to do with the time in between than go to a meeting.

In the scenario Wyatt mentions, Australia didn't separate triallers and non-triallers, but did start the M20s/M35s apart from the W21s on the same course (can't remember whether it was before or after) - this separation of classes on the same course is effectively mandated by our rules whether it's a trial or not.

it seemed that the start lists for the trials on the weekend separated woc triallers fairly effectively, and that while some other runners might have gotten a good tow, those in serious contention for the team didn't start next to each other. looked to me as if a random draw may have been subtley re-arranged.

Thanks for the support Lazydave.
Taking on the OA High Performance Manager position does prevent me from nominating for the team. And yes the Men's coach position was inherited. Obviously being a selector is a major conflict of interest. But Orienteering is a very small sport and both myself and Sue, so 2/3 selectors have conflicts selecting the women's team. The Bushrangers coach is meant to be a selector too, but since that is Shep, he has to be taken of the selection committee too.

I'm looking forward to coaching in Czech (and to plenty of cheap Czech beer!) but it will be very disappointing to see qualification starts go to waste when i could justifiably fill the spot. Though 'll be shagged from a 5 day adventure race in ireland anyway.

And Fatrat- if i was trialling for the team i would have run even better!!

would fat rat have run so well if he was going for the team :)

You had some nice runs, NSW Stinger. I echo lazydave's disappointment on your behalf. After all, you did beat me in all three races. Next time...

It's a little weird to get back to Attackpoint after a little time away and read this thread. I wouldn't have selected me based on my trials races which I would by no means have described as 'very strong' (one disaster and two at-best-ok runs); so no complaints from me. Congratulations to the Australian team, stay uninjured, and good luck at WOC.

Is there a Routegadget or map archive for these courses? I recall seeing a link, but I can't find it.