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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: SPORTident: How can I beep same box multiple times

in: Orienteering; Gear & Toys

Feb 9, 2022 6:37 PM # 
EChild:
Navigation Games is working with PE departments interested in investing in the SI system, and one teacher asked about using the boxes to track repetitions for an activity (such as how many overhand throws students can make at a target).

One solution would be to have students beep multiple boxes and alternate back and forth, but it would be easier for students if they could beep a single box multiple times. By default, if the same SI card beeps a box multiple times within a short time, it only counts a single beep (i.e. I could beep a box 7 times, but it will only count 1).

Is there a way to edit the stations so that it will record every time an SI card beeps, even in rapid succession (so if I beep 7 times, it records 7 beeps).

We are using BSF8 boxes and I'm trying to make changes using SPORTident Config+ v2.11.0.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jwMK7iG2CAc7ot_iQ...
Here is a screenshot of the settings page for one of our SI boxes. I see an option called "Sprint 4ms" which I am unable to select, which I wonder if that would be a solution.
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Feb 10, 2022 8:08 AM # 
jSh:
Hi EChild,

There is no user configuration for the same-chip guard time. You are looking at the right place, it is the station that counts the time. The 4ms-setting has no relevance here, it is only available for Start and Finish modes and, if active, writes the subsecond time (1/256 second) to the chip instead of the code-number (and the evaluation software needs to understand that).

So the only solution I can think of if you're restricted to one station is to break the same-chip guard by a bystander punching a second chip in between each student chip.

If you had download-stations (BSM8) and could have them rigged up to a computer during the challenge, there might be a way using the Start mode and AutoSend out to a PC, because Start doesn't have the same-chip guard so as to always update the start in case of a premature punch.

Sorry, your scenario is not well suited to SI. Longer intervals, for example lap-counting on a track, are more feasible.
Feb 10, 2022 1:03 PM # 
jjcote:
Seems like there would be easier ways to just count things.
Feb 10, 2022 2:00 PM # 
andreais:
Not ideal, but combined with jSh's explanation: every student use 2 pCards alternating. Also increases your number of counts per student.
But I agree with jjcote on this one.
I had looked into stuff like this years ago, with Eric's help at the o-store, but we dropped trying. He may though have gained more insight since, you might want te reach out to him.
Feb 10, 2022 3:27 PM # 
Cristina:
What ever happened to popsicle sticks?
Feb 10, 2022 3:41 PM # 
jSh:
Bad taste joke: they suck.

Seriously: If those are not sugar spheres on the end of a short wooden or rolled-paper stick, what do you mean and how do they help with EChilds task? Sorry, possibly a cultural thing and I just have no idea what you're talking about,.
Feb 10, 2022 3:59 PM # 
Cristina:
In physical education classes in the US it is common to use little wooden sticks (popsicle sticks without the ice) to count laps. I remember doing it in the 80's in Virginia (collecting 1 stick from the teacher each lap of the mile run), and my son also uses them today in Arizona, so it seems to be a popular solution across time and space.

Anyway, I love being able to use e-punching for orienteering and orienteering games, just seems like kids consider collecting sticks or bracelets or whatever else pretty exciting, too.
Feb 10, 2022 4:21 PM # 
jSh:
Ah, right, understood now, thanks a lot. I guess the kids get to keep the sticks afterwards?

Kids seem to love the beeping SI-stuff too, but you can't let them keep those...
Feb 10, 2022 4:34 PM # 
Cristina:
I think we give back the sticks, so no advantage there. SI wins on that point because kids get to keep "receipts".
Feb 10, 2022 4:42 PM # 
gordhun:
Ahh! That's where they got the idea. Back in the last century I was in a trathlon called the Liberty to Liberty. It ws run on July 4th, started with a swim near the Statue of Liberty in New York. Biked across New Jersey to Philadelphia and finished with a 5 mile run fnishing at the Liberty Bell. The run was actually two laps up and down some street in Philly. As we started our second and last lap of the run they handed us our popsicle stick Only instead of a popsicle stick it was a hand held US flag. Patriotic and effective.
Feb 10, 2022 5:00 PM # 
andreais:
back in 2013 I remember an SI School kit brochure showing the use of SI for something similar to Shuttle Runs. However, also at that time some PE supplies companies were presenting kits with watch-like wearables for the students and software for teachers to use for shuttle runs, with these watches tracking also some biometrics, can't remember what, and then downloadable to a software where the teachers could evaluate more than counts - teachers were way more interested in those. Not sure whether they did take off, price tag was definitely not low, but the biometrics tracking allowed them to include wording about health monitoring into their pitches to schools and teachers... And then Apps came out for the Shuttle runs, too.

In addition, having to make sure your pCard or SI card is properly tapped or inserted probably causes more anxiety and upset students, and dealing with that is probably more time consuming than the time saved by automated tracking rather than pairing up students and having one count while the other does the activity.
Feb 10, 2022 5:12 PM # 
jSh:
Ah yes, those were the days... :-)
Feb 10, 2022 5:37 PM # 
jjcote:
I mean, even if you want a "high-tech" solution, there's got to be a popsicle stick phone app. I can understand a PE teacher wanting to come up with additional justification for making the SI purchase, but it's not at all clear to me that this is it. Looking for things that resemble screws because you're thinking about buying a screwdriver, but some of these things are really nails.
Feb 10, 2022 5:48 PM # 
jSh:
You nailed it, and thus my last sentence in my first message this morning.
Lets give EChild a little time to get back to this thread and digest the info.
Feb 10, 2022 7:28 PM # 
feet:
At least he didn't screw it.
Feb 10, 2022 7:34 PM # 
EChild:
Thanks for the input everyone! The reason why the teachers want to use SI is because it makes it easier for them to track student data. Data collection and evaluation is a big pull for teachers, but it's difficult because they have so little time as it is, and manual data entry and analysis for each student isn't always feasible.

Plus kids really REALLY like beeping things.

Sounds like SI isn't the solution for this sort of activity, but I'll keep mulling it over!
Feb 10, 2022 9:11 PM # 
jSh:
I do know kids love beeping things, and I'm still secretly trying to make the sales pitch here for you even if nails look like screws and vice versa, so just another idea: might it be useful for the students to count their repetitions themselves (possibly pair-reviewed), and then punch one of many stations per activity based on the count they achieved?

Say activity 1 has SI-stations with codes 11 to 19, labelled 10 to 90, and the students are told "if you manage 37 situps, you round that up to 40 and punch 40".
Activity 2 has SI-stations 20 to 29, labelled 0 to 9, and the students are told "you have ten throws of the basket ball, if you get the ball in the net 5 times, you punch 5".
When you download that chip, you'll have codes 14 and 25 and can thus work out whatever overall scoring you want to give.

Yes, it still feels to me like solving problems better solved with pen and paper, but actually a scoring system like this did exist in a product concept I bet you've never heard about but that will instantly look familiar to you on pictures:
http://home.golfident.com/spelaren/
Feb 11, 2022 4:52 AM # 
tRicky:
Sounds like you're encouraging cheating with that situp scenario.

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