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Discussion: Can you adjust your route in Livelox?

in: Orienteering; Gear & Toys

Dec 1, 2021 2:08 AM # 
I enjoy watching race replays in Livelox. I don't like when there is a notiecable offset between the center of the circle and the location at which the runner's icon blinks to indicate s/he punched.

In RouteGadget, I can upload a tcx or gpx file, and drag the route, even insert new points, so that the line shown on the map corresponds to where I ran, even if it falls *out* of correspondence with actual physical space. I move my route to show I was running on a trail, for example, rather than running a trail-shaped course offset by 25m.

This is not merely an exercise in esthetics or Emerson's "foolish consistency". When someone turns sharply, I like to know whether s/he turned in the right or the wrong direction. Often I can think, "How was s/he navigating?" or "What feature did s/he use to relocate?" When the track displayed diverges from the real features, this armchair analysis is made much more difficult.
Dec 1, 2021 9:08 PM # 
The question seems based on the assumption that the route is wrong and the placement of the control and/or the geo-referencing of the map are correct. That is not necessarily how it always happens.
Take a look at control 7 and you will realize that not all those gps tracks can be wrong. I guess the flag hanger picked the wrong significant tree., one that the mapper did not even think was significant.
Dec 1, 2021 11:19 PM # 
Perhaps the tree was mapped incorrectly.
Dec 1, 2021 11:26 PM # 
Finding the most prominent tree is a part of the course setting art. Nothing to do with mapping whatsoever.
Dec 2, 2021 12:36 AM # 
I think Tricky and Igor you are missing the point. The first poster is seeming to assume the map is correct so he wants to be able to move gps tracks to fit the map.
I'm pointing out that it can just as easily, maybe more easily, be the map that is wrong or the control point is marked in the wrong location as it be the track that is wrong. When confronted with that situation I just accept it and move on.
(Funny thing about the example I showed above: the mapper and the control placer were the same person. When placing the control he was in much more of a hurry than when mapping.)
Dec 2, 2021 12:47 AM # 
I didn't miss the point; I was just confirming that either incorrect control placement (as you stated) or incorrect map (as I stated) could be the issue rather than a correction required to the GPS trace.

However if the entire trace is out of alignment then levitin is presently left without a solution.
Dec 2, 2021 1:56 AM # 
I don't assume the map is geo-referenced. I assume the map is *locally* correct, but maybe error creeps in over large distances. I do trust that the mapper accurately put features into the right place, at least locally, and that the control hanger found the right feature.

Livelox creates exciting races if everything is perfect. If the map is not georeferenced, but everything else is perfect, I can still wind up with tracks that mislead the viewer.
Dec 2, 2021 3:42 AM # 
Mr Wonderful:
"All trees are special" - igor_, many years ago, I think at Yankee Springs
Dec 2, 2021 6:07 AM # 
Sadly Liveliox isn't that great without a subscription and it's not worth getting one in Aus where very few people upload.
Dec 9, 2021 3:13 PM # 
Imho, Livelox is a great tool to use as part of a training process for orienteering. While viewing multiple route replays simultaneously, typically only available to paid subscribers, provides the best feedback on a run, a runner on a free account that can only replay one route at a time can still find some benefit from Livelox.

In addition to the variables of map accuracy (feature location AND quality of georeferencing) and correct control placement, there is also the variable of the accuracy of the GPS recording device to consider when trying to understand why a recorded route doesn't necessarily align with the route that a runner actually ran on a course.

Because the GPS accuracy of the wide range of smartphones that can be used to record tracks for use in Livelox is highly variable, compared to dedicated GPS trackers, the Livelox software needs to accommodate for that. It's my understanding that as long as Livelox detects that a runner's route came within 50m of a mapped control location, a punch will be registered. Personally, I don't consider this a huge issue because the objective of Livelox is not to verify that controls have been found, but to provide a reasonably accurate record of routes that were taken on a course for susequent replay and analysis.

This discussion thread is closed.