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Discussion: Day 1 finish timing

in: MNOC Masters Nationals (Oct 9–10 - Onamia, MN, US)

Oct 12, 2021 12:31 PM # 
jjcote:
Is there a chance that we have another case of unsynchronized finish boxes on Day 1? (I haven't looked at Day 2, but maybe that would be affected as well; it would be less noticeable with the longer chute.) Looking just at RedX, there are some anomalously fast times, notably my own; although I'd like to imagine that I covered 220 m in 44 seconds, my watch says it was more like 53 seconds. My Day 2 finish split is also 9 seconds faster than what I recorded. Maybe there were two boxes that were 9 seconds apart?
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Oct 12, 2021 3:35 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
I noticed a discrepancy vs. my Garmin, assessed it at 7 seconds both days, and assumed both finish units were the same. There's no logical ground for the last statement, though.
Oct 12, 2021 4:30 PM # 
jjcote:
The reason I suspect a mismatch is that it seems unlikely I could have turned in the 3rd fastest chute time on RedX on Saturday.
Oct 12, 2021 6:07 PM # 
Cristina:
Was there even more than one finish punch? I don't remember.
Oct 12, 2021 6:30 PM # 
bbrooke:
I only remember seeing one finish punch.
Oct 12, 2021 6:40 PM # 
jjcote:
I don't remember either, I'm just guessing that there was, because some people have more credible times.
Oct 12, 2021 6:42 PM # 
jjcote:
And an unrelated question: what were the small OOB areas? There are a few on the map, just a handful of vertical purple lines, and underneath each is a small trail leading to a small black X. There's one on the Day 2 map on the south shore of Black Bass Lake.
Oct 12, 2021 7:30 PM # 
Sergey:
There were two finish punch stations both days.
Oct 12, 2021 7:44 PM # 
peggyd:
Photos confirm that.
https://www.facebook.com/OrienteeringUSA/photos/pc...
Oct 12, 2021 7:51 PM # 
bbrooke:
Ah, I see now (two punches on one stand; I only remembered seeing the one stand).
Oct 12, 2021 8:04 PM # 
pwentz3l:
We've confirmed a 6 sec offset on the two punches. All punches except for one finish control were mastered at the same time. One of our "check" controls was changed to a finish the day prior to the event. We'll assess whether there is a placing change/reason for dispute of the results.

The small hashed areas are hike in campsites.
Oct 12, 2021 8:26 PM # 
pfc:
@jjcote Small OOB areas are backcountry campsites.
Oct 12, 2021 9:11 PM # 
bmay:
In M60, Mike Minium seems like a potential case ... 4th place, 11 seconds out of 3rd over two days*. I wonder if you can query the SI finish-units to determine who punched which of the two boxes on each day? How much data remains stored in the boxes?

* I suppose the likelyhood of a result-changing effect is pretty small. Theoretically (assuming independence which wouldn't be strictly true), a 1 in 16 chance that Mike punched the slow box both days and Roberto punched the fast box both days.
Oct 12, 2021 9:35 PM # 
tRicky:
Ahh the good old unsynched two finish brick problem. I've encountered it a number of times now. When will the organisers learn?
Oct 13, 2021 11:36 AM # 
Tundra/Desert:
I had the fast(er than GPS time) station both days
Oct 13, 2021 11:45 AM # 
jjcote:
I wonder if it will turn out to more or less track which hand you carry your epunch in.
Oct 13, 2021 2:26 PM # 
pwentz3l:
Update: The two controls were off by 7 seconds. Mike punched the same control both days and Roberto punched once on each. The result was Mike gained a 7 second advantage, so Roberto actually won by a larger margin.

There is another race, day 1 Green Y, that needs resolution as to whether national ranking points are affected.
Oct 13, 2021 2:41 PM # 
jjcote:
Well, ranking points would definitely be affected for all courses, but it's an extremely minor effect.
Oct 13, 2021 2:42 PM # 
Cristina:
Im definitely curious about whether the exact tie on Saturday still stands.
Oct 13, 2021 3:05 PM # 
gordhun:
I made that mistake once actually putting an extra start box out at the last minute without coordinating its time with the master station. The difference was the difference between Standard and Daylight Savings Time. Never again!
Oct 14, 2021 2:11 AM # 
mikeminium:
Brian, thanks for bringing up my name, and Peter, thanks for checking!

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