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Discussion: How to get orienteering into the Olympics

in: Orienteering; General

Aug 19, 2021 2:17 AM # 
robplow:
Just read this:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/18/mode...

Why not propose replacing the horses with a sprint orienteering course.

In the article they mention that the origins of modern pentathlon were military - testing all the skills a modern (at that time) soldier needed.

Orienteering would be an excellent fit as it also has its origins as military training, and being able to navigate quickly (in this case in an urban environment) is a very relevant military skill. It would be easy enough to make a sprint map of the park/urban surrounds of the pentathlon venues and include that in the program. You could also combine obstacle course elements with the orienteering to make it more appealing to the TV audience. Set a sprint course with the occasional obstacle at control sites - climbing over walls, crawling through mud under barbed wire, etc. you could even integrate the shooting into it - make them carry their gun and do shooting tasks at certain controls - missed shots could result in penalty loops (like in biathlon) - eg an extra control or two or an extra obstacle.

And come up with some exiting name for this new discipline: anything but 'orienteering'
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Aug 19, 2021 2:34 AM # 
rlindzon:
And how many years has it been since a sport whose origins were military got added to the Olympics?
Aug 19, 2021 2:52 AM # 
robplow:
I seem to remember surfing being considered an important military skill at the beginning of Apocalypse Now, and that just got into the Olympics!

My post was mostly intended to be tongue in cheek. :-J

but still - did you actually read the article? It would not be adding a new sport it would be modifying an existing sport (modern pentathlon). And the whole point of the article is that modern pentathlon was invented as a combination of military skills and that it should be updated to skills that are more relevant to the current 'modern' - and remove disciplines that end up with horses getting punched.
Aug 19, 2021 6:01 AM # 
kofols:
So IOF would need to organize WMOC before Olympics as a training camp. Not so sure if "elite" athletes want to be part of a sport where you can get dirty. Maybe a MTBo would be more TV friendly.
Aug 19, 2021 6:34 AM # 
MChub:
Coincidentally, the CEO of British Orienteering is a former pentathlete.

https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/?pg=news_ar...
Aug 19, 2021 6:58 AM # 
tRicky:
MTBO that goes over 2m rock drops where during the practice run there was a ramp, which oddly disappeared during the (men's) event would provide more of a spectacle.
Aug 19, 2021 5:48 PM # 
Vector:
Kinda like the "Mountaineering" bit now coming to Winter Olympics.

Even in the CISM World Military Games and World Military Championships orienteering isn't included in its "Military Pentathalon". However cross country running is, so I say replace the cross country run with orienteering since orienteering is real true cross country running, and also far more relevant than just running mindlessly without a purpose and without added mental stress.

That said CISM was doing World Military Orienteering Championships for a long while, one of which I competed at. CISM also includes orienteering at the World Military Games...but everyone knows about that after the infamous Chinese orienteering cheating scandal...

And the CIOR does Reservist military international competitions and their pentathalon of sorts *does* include orienteering.

I think a mix of sprint and forest would be more militarily relevant instead of just one or the other.

Rlindzon has a point though...in an era of synchronized swimming and...walking...being added to the Olympics, military skills seem far out of IOC's orbit of late.
Aug 19, 2021 7:25 PM # 
Cristina:
A CIOR-style pentathlon would make for much more interesting tv than vanilla orienteering would. Four of the events are easy to make interesting (land + water obstacle courses and pistol + rifle marksmanship) and the orienteering has some potentially interesting components (grenade toss comes to mind). Of course, I can just imagine how much fun it would be to try to mutate modern pentathlon into that kind of event.
Aug 20, 2021 12:25 AM # 
robplow:
. . .being added to the Olympics, military skills seem far out of IOC's orbit of late.

Well I am generally of the opinion that the quest to get orienteering into the Olympics has little or no chance of success which is why I say y post was tongue in cheek.

And yes in general there is probably very little likelihood of the Olympics being interested in new military skill sports - but two things about the modern pentathlon:

1: it is an existing sport - much easier to modify an existing sport than get a new one in
2. it has a special place in Olympic history, it was invented specifically for the Olympics (1912). I imagine that gives it a special status

Walking has not been recently introduced to the Olympics - in fact I believe that race walking will no longer be part of the track and field program from now on.

Interestingly I just listened to this last night - about the 19th century sporting phenomenon of pedestrianism:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/late...
Aug 20, 2021 12:34 AM # 
robplow:
if you were going to devise a new military sport that the US would do well at you would have to include events like: sneaking out of an airbase in the middle of the night. - you could make that a sort of night orienteering exercise I guess. Also seeing how many refugees you can fit into a Chinook or a C17.
Aug 20, 2021 1:04 AM # 
robplow:
or you could have the Australian SAS pentathlon:

1. shooting - targets are unarmed civilians, extra points if they are physically or mentally handicapped

2. "dressage" bodies of civilian casualties must be "dressed" with weapons, radios etc. The dressed bodies must be photographed - extra points for photographic style.

3. Cliff kicking: - kicking bound detainees off a cliff - points based on distance and severity of injury.

4 beer relay - the beer is consumed from a prosthetic leg taken from a civilian casualty

5 boxing - a team of soldiers beats the crap out of another, lone, soldier who threatens to blow the whistle.
Aug 20, 2021 4:41 AM # 
BOM:
The Olymics are mostly watched by old people. IOC is desperately trying to added some events with youth appeal.
Orienteeing (and this forum) is very far from having a youth profile. Thus is is even further from inclusion in the Olympics.
But do we really want to be part of the Games that dictators and authorian leaders uses to sportwash their reign?
Aug 20, 2021 5:39 AM # 
gruver:
That's uncomfortably close to the bone, Rob. Was this thread designed to encourage us to confront our dark pasts?
Aug 20, 2021 5:47 AM # 
blairtrewin:
Might need an 'allegedly' or two while legal proceedings are pending. (The Australian soldier who sued various media outlets over some of the above is not the first defamation plaintiff to discover that what comes out in the court case can be far worse than what they were suing over in the first place).
Aug 20, 2021 7:12 AM # 
robplow:
Hmm - now I am thinking about what events you might include in a Christian Porter pentathlon . . . allegedly
Aug 20, 2021 8:06 AM # 
tRicky:
I believe that race walking will no longer be part of the track and field program from now on.

I heard they were getting rid of the 50km walk but had not heard of the 20km version being disposed of (yet).
Aug 20, 2021 8:51 AM # 
blairtrewin:
That's what I'd heard too.
Aug 20, 2021 8:59 AM # 
robplow:
MTBO that goes over 2m rock drops where during the practice run there was a ramp, which oddly disappeared during the (men's) event would provide more of a spectacle.

As I heard it - they all knew the ramp was going to be removed - except whatshisname who crashed there, as he had arrived at the last moment from the TdF.
Aug 20, 2021 10:13 AM # 
tRicky:
Well I once went over a 1m drop off that I did not know was going to be there during a MTBO event in a horse training area (it wasn't much out of the start area) and thankfully stuck the landing otherwise I wouldn't have been very happy.
Aug 20, 2021 10:30 AM # 
robplow:
Yeah but surely at that level being familiar with the course is a very important part of the preparation. It is not the organiser's fault if you have not got to know the course.
Aug 20, 2021 12:21 PM # 
tRicky:
Yes correct, I never used to preride XC courses because I wanted to be 'surprised' by it (as with MTBO) but decided to treat the two disciplines differently and am glad I did. Last year there were definitely some points in various XC courses where I was glad I rode it beforehand else I could have come unstuck very quickly. Given with XCO courses that you ride multiple laps, it makes sense to do so (you can only be surprised by it once and so it may as well be prior to the race). XCM on the other hand is a different story...
Aug 21, 2021 2:21 AM # 
gruver:
Well if MTB-Orienteering is having practice runs on the course that could be brought into Foot-O surely. Wonder why Sandor over on that other thread hasn't suggested it. Heh heh.
Aug 21, 2021 2:27 AM # 
tRicky:
I think Rob was referring to XC, not MTBO (at least I based my response on that assumption).

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