Discussion: Entry refunds
in: 18th World Rogaining Championships (Jul 29–30, 2020 - Truckee, CA, US)
Apr 22, 2021 2:18 PM
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No news on whether or not the WRC at Lake Tahoe are a no or go. Approaching the deadline of April 30, which states that refunds will now drop to 60% of entry fee if cancelled for force majeure (covid). So if the organizers equivocate long enough, it is a win for them.
There has been no public announcement on the Cal O Fest site since November. Through email recently I was told a decision would be made April 21.
Nothing yet today April 22.
We are caught between the decision (?) and the deadline for returns of entry fees. If competitor cancels now only 80% would be refunded. If they cancel it is 100%.I am waiting on them.
Has anyone cancelled already?
The silence from the event is deafening.
There has been no public announcement on the Cal O Fest site since November. Through email recently I was told a decision would be made April 21.
Nothing yet today April 22.
We are caught between the decision (?) and the deadline for returns of entry fees. If competitor cancels now only 80% would be refunded. If they cancel it is 100%.I am waiting on them.
Has anyone cancelled already?
The silence from the event is deafening.
Apr 22, 2021 6:06 PM
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Thinair> "So if the organizers equivocate long enough, it is a win for them."
Thinair, I am in a similar situation as are many others. You and I (and the rest I am sure) are anxiously awaiting information. I think there is room for some criticism of the organizers for a lack of official information, even if it had been just "still working this, no official decision yet."
You said you heard about a decision deadline on April 21 via email. I remember hearing something similar, but on an Attackpoint thread--but I just took a very quick look and wasn't able to put my finger on which thread. Perhaps you are signed up for the rogaine only; I am signed up for everything and I think the thread in question was on the orienteering side.
But my memory of what I read is slightly different than what you head: something along the lines of a key meeting occurring on the 21st, so a decision should happen soon thereafter, not precisely on the 21st, and in any event by the end of April. As I said, I agree it would have been good if this had been said more officially and clearly (such as on the website).
But I have nothing but sympathy for the organizers, and I don't think your jibe about them somehow benefitting from this situation is called far.
Rather, I interpret the limited information to indicate that:
--All of the organizer's available bandwidth, and then some, may have been consumed in trying to find a workable solution to allow the events to go forward in some fashion.
--There probably is not a clear "yes" or "no" answer, which we probably would have heard about by now.
--Rather, the lack of information may reflect organizers may see at least the possibility of some path forward, which is probably difficult and complicated to implement and probably requires the cooperation of many others outside the organizing committee, such as the Canadians and the local authorities who control the venues. And I suspect they are trying their damnedest to make it all work somehow, or at least make some portion work that is worthwhile to some subset of the expected participants (e.g. maybe the decision will be different for the orienteering than for the rogaine).
Now to make clear, the above points are only my own speculation based on thin information. What it means for me is that I am trying my damndest to channel my frustration into support and understanding for the organizers, rather than devolving into complaints and criticism. I'm sure that when the dust settles, we and they will realize there are ways it could have been handled better. But if mistakes are made, are certainly don't think there are any nefarious aspects to the reasons for the mistakes.
Personally, if the whole thing is cancelled, I will not ask for a full refund, or perhaps any refund, even if one is offered. I know that many unrecoverable expenses have already been incurred. If it is necessary to cancel the event(s), it will have come a considerable psychological cost to the organizers; I don't want it to also come at great financial cost to them personally or to the almost-all-volunteer local organizations that will want to continue putting on events for us all going forward. That is from the point of view of my own personal situation, financial and otherwise. I don't expect you, Thinair, or any of the other so-far registered participants to make a similar decision about a refund, each of us has our own circumstances to consider.
Thinair, I am in a similar situation as are many others. You and I (and the rest I am sure) are anxiously awaiting information. I think there is room for some criticism of the organizers for a lack of official information, even if it had been just "still working this, no official decision yet."
You said you heard about a decision deadline on April 21 via email. I remember hearing something similar, but on an Attackpoint thread--but I just took a very quick look and wasn't able to put my finger on which thread. Perhaps you are signed up for the rogaine only; I am signed up for everything and I think the thread in question was on the orienteering side.
But my memory of what I read is slightly different than what you head: something along the lines of a key meeting occurring on the 21st, so a decision should happen soon thereafter, not precisely on the 21st, and in any event by the end of April. As I said, I agree it would have been good if this had been said more officially and clearly (such as on the website).
But I have nothing but sympathy for the organizers, and I don't think your jibe about them somehow benefitting from this situation is called far.
Rather, I interpret the limited information to indicate that:
--All of the organizer's available bandwidth, and then some, may have been consumed in trying to find a workable solution to allow the events to go forward in some fashion.
--There probably is not a clear "yes" or "no" answer, which we probably would have heard about by now.
--Rather, the lack of information may reflect organizers may see at least the possibility of some path forward, which is probably difficult and complicated to implement and probably requires the cooperation of many others outside the organizing committee, such as the Canadians and the local authorities who control the venues. And I suspect they are trying their damnedest to make it all work somehow, or at least make some portion work that is worthwhile to some subset of the expected participants (e.g. maybe the decision will be different for the orienteering than for the rogaine).
Now to make clear, the above points are only my own speculation based on thin information. What it means for me is that I am trying my damndest to channel my frustration into support and understanding for the organizers, rather than devolving into complaints and criticism. I'm sure that when the dust settles, we and they will realize there are ways it could have been handled better. But if mistakes are made, are certainly don't think there are any nefarious aspects to the reasons for the mistakes.
Personally, if the whole thing is cancelled, I will not ask for a full refund, or perhaps any refund, even if one is offered. I know that many unrecoverable expenses have already been incurred. If it is necessary to cancel the event(s), it will have come a considerable psychological cost to the organizers; I don't want it to also come at great financial cost to them personally or to the almost-all-volunteer local organizations that will want to continue putting on events for us all going forward. That is from the point of view of my own personal situation, financial and otherwise. I don't expect you, Thinair, or any of the other so-far registered participants to make a similar decision about a refund, each of us has our own circumstances to consider.
Apr 22, 2021 6:07 PM
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It took me so long to compose my verbose post, I missed Tundra/Desert's post. I'm on tenterhooks, as I'm sure all of you are.
Apr 22, 2021 6:23 PM
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The event website confirms that Cal O Fest is moving to 2023 (but there is Tahoe 2021 to replace it).
Apr 22, 2021 6:44 PM
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Well it says a bit more than that! (I see hillanddale just edited his response to reflect that)
https://cal-o-fest.com/#!/ and scroll down to the box of blue fine print (If the fine print is as hard for you to read as me, click on the three dots then click on Full Screen).
The California O Fest, including the North American Orienteering Championships and the World Rogaining Championships (and I suspect to include the preliminary events in the Bay Area) have been moved to 2023, exact schedule to be determined, but expected to be comparable to the August schedule that was to have been used this year.
But there still will be orienteering and rogaining in California in 2021, now to be called Tahoe 2021: U.S. Orienteering Championships (sprint, middle, long, relay) August 6-9, North American Rogaine Champs August 14-15.
Seems like having our cake and eating it too, to me.
https://cal-o-fest.com/#!/ and scroll down to the box of blue fine print (If the fine print is as hard for you to read as me, click on the three dots then click on Full Screen).
The California O Fest, including the North American Orienteering Championships and the World Rogaining Championships (and I suspect to include the preliminary events in the Bay Area) have been moved to 2023, exact schedule to be determined, but expected to be comparable to the August schedule that was to have been used this year.
But there still will be orienteering and rogaining in California in 2021, now to be called Tahoe 2021: U.S. Orienteering Championships (sprint, middle, long, relay) August 6-9, North American Rogaine Champs August 14-15.
Seems like having our cake and eating it too, to me.
Apr 22, 2021 7:40 PM
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So... there will be a NARC this year at the location planned for the WRC, and then also a WRC in 2023, maybe on a different piece of terrain? Am I reading that correctly?
Apr 22, 2021 7:50 PM
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Yes, JJ, that's the plan as I understand it. The NARC and WRC will use different parts of the map, except maybe around the start. The committee had to get IRF to ok that.
With the CalOFest moving to 2023, there's a possibility of one of the preliminary events being in Big Basin. Right now, off trail would probably not be possible because of the safety issues resulting from last year's fire.
DIsclaimer: Not a committee member, just a BAOC Board member.
With the CalOFest moving to 2023, there's a possibility of one of the preliminary events being in Big Basin. Right now, off trail would probably not be possible because of the safety issues resulting from last year's fire.
DIsclaimer: Not a committee member, just a BAOC Board member.
Apr 22, 2021 11:22 PM
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Hi All,
best of a tough situation for the organisers. From the IRF perspective it is important that there is a WRC hosted in the US to help promote and grow the sport. A successful event event is both having a high standard of competition as well as large numbers of local and international participants taking part, sharing ideas and cultures.
Normally the double use of a map would be a flat no for a World Champs, but in this case it's seen as the most practical solution. Obviously the map and results will be available to all future participants with k-rates for various sections able to be estimated. We do not believe that using the map will have a large influence on the outcome of a future WRC to be held in Tahoe.
Personally, I am really pleased for both those who have entered and the organisers that there will be an event this year.
Cheers
Matt (IRF thingy)
best of a tough situation for the organisers. From the IRF perspective it is important that there is a WRC hosted in the US to help promote and grow the sport. A successful event event is both having a high standard of competition as well as large numbers of local and international participants taking part, sharing ideas and cultures.
Normally the double use of a map would be a flat no for a World Champs, but in this case it's seen as the most practical solution. Obviously the map and results will be available to all future participants with k-rates for various sections able to be estimated. We do not believe that using the map will have a large influence on the outcome of a future WRC to be held in Tahoe.
Personally, I am really pleased for both those who have entered and the organisers that there will be an event this year.
Cheers
Matt (IRF thingy)
This discussion thread is closed.