Discussion: A proposal for the Team

Having vented, now's the time for more constructive stuff. (No, I haven't been drinking.) As I said, the best way for the Team to raise money appears to be holding events. This makes the Team a target of accusations by clubs that it is skimming the cream off an existing investment in maps and volunteer power that these clubs view as revenue-generating assets. The only maps that the Team owns are the Harriman maps; using them year after year is clearly not feasible.

So, short of original ideas, I'll throw in an old one. We could consider investing in new maps and rotating them with the Harriman areas. Managed properly, this activity could generate a consistent revenue stream just like it does for "plain boring" O-clubs. We would be different from those clubs in that we would not be interested in any activities they "waste" the time and energy on except holding the A (or IOF) events and using the proceeds for Team training and competition. We could just leave local events on the map to a neighboring club in exchange for royalties.

We should be careful, however, to not ask the neighboring club for too much, like seed/investment money or volunteers, because then we'd be viewed as unwelcome invaders. Seed money could come from USOF map-loan fund (try to keep that USOF as friends). I also have preliminary offers of mapping in exchange for later event proceeds and possibly royalties, with little payment upfront.

Certainly this is not a new idea and there are reasons why this has not been done before. What has subtly changed in the 10 years that I have been observing US orienteering is that people have become more serious about O. The membership is stable but the people who are there attend more events, travel farther, and train slightly better. There *just* may be a base among this membership to support this idea now that there wasn't in the past.

There are items to carefully consider before plunging in.

* The new maps have to be as close to a major population center as possible. Thinking locally, there are areas around BAOC fringe (but still sufficiently close to the population) that BAOC has little interest in. It would be nice if a lot of Team people lived around these areas but this may not be possible given other constraints. But clearly South Dakota would not work.

* As much use must be made of existing assets as possible. I.e. hold a sprint or a relay event on a long-forgotten, slighly-modified nearby map as a third/fourth day. But not get too greedy; clearly the customer base for the 1000-day is smaller than that for a regular 2-day meet.

* We should not be afraid to charge what is reasonable. $25/day seems like the absolute floor (it is hard to find a decent 5k for less than $25 around the Bay Area). Remember, this is a rich country despite whatever is going on, and people are more prosperous now than 10 years ago.

* Plans will have to be made well in advance. 2005 (preparation cycle for the Japan WOC) seems like the earliest we could venture for now given an agreement.

* Maximum use would have to be made of bid and IOF events, but we should not ask for what limited resources cannot handle. I.e. Open Champs or a WRE seem great to bid for, but an Interscholastics is not. Even a JWOC or a World Cup are not out of the question, but would require very careful preparation. For the same reason a large rogaine seems like a stretch (not too many man-hours but too many hours). By contrast, real lead time for an A meet is not large as we found out this year (and I've known all along with the Pig).

* Again, the most important thing is to keep the aboriginals happy.

Here are the numbers that at a rough glance seem to make the idea possible. Mapper costs for a map large enough for 2 days are about $10k. This for quality that will not require the course setter to do more fieldwork, and for an area just large enough for two reasonably overlapping days. A third day should use a smaller, existing, volunteer-revised (if needed) map. Eastern European printing prices for 3k maps and very good quality are well under $1k. Permits and miscellanious (which should be kept uner control) should not exceed another $1k. Equipment rental is yet another $1k. For a start, this should be all for a near-bare-bones event (which an Open Champs may well be—you do get a new map).

In the Northeast or in BAOC land, given a proper PR and marketing effort, one can expect around 200 equivalent people to show up for such an event (i.e. 600 people-days). This rings in $15k, for an around $2k first-time profit. Then there are possible royalties, places to cut the budget slightly, and places to make more $. Seems like enough of an immediate contribution to the Team budget, with a potential for more later.

One of the main points is to keep our efforts to a minimum. Notice that this plan would not have quite worked in, say, 1995 because you couldn't charge this much. Also the state of the map fund and the availability of mappers have changed significantly.

Everyone is welcome to discuss. Note that we have just about pulled a project like that through this year, but without the "new map" part. Given enough lead time I think we can do it.

As a siggestions the team should really consider to make it full event with t-shirts and dinner. BBQ dinner may bring more revenue for the team than 1 day of competition. T-shirts are also good stream of revenue and easy to order. Based on my experience with organizing competitions here. I support Vlad and willing to contribute my labor in organizing USA Team meets.

Speaking about areas, 4 general places come to my mind. NW (there are wonderful venues ~1 hour drive from Seattle), Pacific (BAOC areas as Vlad mentioned), Ohio (always welcome as it is in the middle of the country), and NE (I am sure that something wonderful is near Boston).

While selecting the area to map we should also consider for how long newly created maps can be used. Harriman park maps used for 10? years and are still good.

Sergey

Oh, and for 2004, it is still not too late to convince OCIN to hold a Pigsta. But I'll need helpers.

Speaking more or less officially for SLOC (as a director and mapping chair), I welcome Vlad's proposal. We have an outstanding new map (nearly 30 km2!) which we will be using next spring for our A-meet. Obviously there will be plenty of real estate left over if the team would like to put on a third day as part of that event (I was thinking a Friday sprint would be good, but I can't staff it).

Cash and maps we have - it's volunteers that we are in short supply of.

Another club with some great terrain that doesn't do A-meets and might welcome this is SDO. Their maps could use some updating and they constantly say they don't have the expertise and manpower to put on an A-meet. Perhaps they would be happy to get their maps updated in exchange for letting someone else profit from an A-meet.

There is still lots of world class terrain in Harriman waiting to be mapped. I am working on a map of my community that should be perfect for a sprint race. It is about a 15 miles south of Harriman.

1) I'm not sure that new map projects are necessary for the Team to put on meets. I think paying for copies of existing maps should work reasonably well, and might work out better financially. Or maybe not, but I have some doubts about the financial wisdom of making a map if there isn't a plan in place to use it for local meets after the initial big event. If a plan can be put together where there's a definite customer base in terms of a local club that's willing pay royalties, well, that's fine then. But otherwise I think the Team might more wisely be the customer. Some clubs might be resistant to this notion, but perhaps sense can be talked into them. If the Team is willing to pay for thr map copies, rather than asking for them to be donated, I think it should be a reasonably easy sell. As Mikell has put it, "If somebody wanted to come and put on orienteering meets near where I live, I'd be delighted!"

2) Before getting too excited about the success of this year's event (by which I assume you mean the Team Trials, there are a couple of caveats. One relates to lead time, that being that Sanctioning actually denied A-meet status because the forms were submitted so late. And they weren't happy about the situation. Second, it seems to me like an *awful* lot of the work on this meet was done by Eric Weyman, Joe Mokszycki, Sandy Fillebrown, and myself, none of whom are exactly Team members these days. And the contributions from actual Team people was... limited.

First, thank you very much JJ, Eric, Joe, and Sandy for helping make the US Team Trials a success this year. If it wasn't for the help of team supporters like yourselves, the US team would be in even worse organizational shape than it is today.

I agree with JJ that most Team members don't appear to have enough volunteer time to contribute to, say, Team events, that they don't already contribute to orienteering (training, competiting and other volunteering and other activities in their lives.)

Part of the problem with a comparison to the 2003 Trials, is that the Team Trials is an event where most team members want to be as competitive as possible, which often conflicts with their ability to volunteer.

If we host an A-event somewhere, it should not be a championships so that US Team members would be able to be a little less competitve and volunteer more. I still think it might be tough to do, but with a key volunteer like Vlad (team supporter extraordinaire) directing the show, it could be done.

This sounds like something good, for the future of the US Team and I am sure, that each member of the team, has suporters in their lives,wich would be wiling to volunteer for them in case that this idea would turn in to reality and without them, probably this will not work.On the other hand I will get involved ,if asked ,with any volunteer help, related to this program, if it materializes and as Wyatt mentioned, it can't be done without someone in charge,keeping everething under control, but it seems feasible if all falls in place.And JJ's idea of ussing existing maps or updated maps, to start sounds good too, but eventualy we will need new very good maps in order to achieve a higher standard and IOF events, wich also sounds great, we need to bring some overseas competiton here, as well, in order to have full acomplishment of this plan.

Hmm. Well, if the plan is for Team people to put on things like WRE races, then there may be an inherent conflict of effort. I think there may be two different objectives here, that might not mesh too well: 1) to have quality elite-level races, and 2) to have events that raise money for the Team. With the size of the elite community as things stand right now, if elite people are putting on the races, that cuts down considerably on the customer base. And elite-focused races are poor revenue generators, because they inherently have low attendance. The way you generate income is by putting on something that will attract throngs of old people. Or a lot of local novices.

So, if we plan to stay out of making new maps for now, and try to approach clubs that can attract a sizeable audience, the following projects come to mind. We should select one or several of them ASAP, or think about something else. Note: given the attitude of the noble Sanctioning Committee, ANY not-already-scheduled A meet that we plan on being a revenue generator for the 2004 WOC is already too late to schedule. We'll have to research other funding opportunities and have to plan for 2005.

* OCIN: Suggest holding a Pigsta on the third day of the 2004 Pig for non-Interscholastic competitors, before the Interscholastic race, with a separate set of equipment and maps, paying OCIN royalties for maps. I would volunteer to prepare all maps but someone would have to volunteer to set the controls and do the (manual-punch) results. Lead time for control setup is about 3 days.

* ICO: This little Indianapolis club attracts tons of adventure-race people and has not one but 3 A-meet-quality maps which have never been used for an A meet, one within the city itself. About $100 closer to the East Coast than California. Their only problem is volunteers. The only workable time for Indiana is September.

* I'm sure there are approachable clubs in the Northeast but I personally am not aware of the exact opportunities.

* SDO is yet another opportunity but is quite far for enough Team people to travel, and their good maps aren't particularly close to the city.

Since we are talking specifically about 2004, I'll add that SLOC's A-meet has been rescheduled for next spring (that's pending a couple of outstanding emails from committee members, but so far the date change has met no resistance). The dates are March 20-21, 2004. If OCIN is not interested, this is another "day 3" opportunity.

I like the Team spirit regarding the Vlad's proposition :)

CTOC and some Team members already are doing this for last 2 PNWOFs generating some income for the team. PNWOF2001 relay income was donated to the team, as well as this year PNWOF2003 sprint income. However, the income in both cases was <$500. To generate amount of cash that is neccessary for the team operation we need to do 2-3 days full event. Falling on the tail of some event (3rd day or so) will not generate enough cash. However, being a part of big festival pays and should be taken as one of the team fund raising opportunities.

I propose to the team to take one of the PNWOF2005 days and organize fun sprint or relays.

For the next year, looks like ICO's 3 days A meet organized by the team sounds very attractive. Short, Long, Sprint or Relay may be in the program.

By the way, USOF calendar does not list any USA Championships for the next year. The 2004 Team Trials place and schedule also are unknown at this time.

Once again, I will donate reasonably my time and labor to organize the Team events. I still want to compete so reserve a place for some passive work (web site, flyers, t-shirts, dinner, etc.).

Thanks,
Sergey

like the Team spirit regarding the Vlad's proposition :)

CTOC and some Team members already are doing this for last 2 PNWOFs generating some income for the team. PNWOF2001 relay income was donated to the team, as well as this year PNWOF2003 sprint income. However, the income in both cases was <$500. To generate amount of cash that is neccessary for the team operation we need to do 2-3 days full event. Falling on the tail of some event (3rd day or so) will not generate enough cash. However, being a part of big festival pays and should be taken as one of the team fund raising opportunities.

I propose to the team to take one of the PNWOF2005 days and organize fun sprint or relays.

For the next year, looks like ICO's 3 days A meet organized by the team sounds very attractive. Short, Long, Sprint or Relay may be in the program.

By the way, USOF calendar does not list any USA Championships for the next year. The 2004 Team Trials place and schedule also are unknown at this time.

Once again, I will donate reasonably my time and labor to organize the Team events. I still want to compete so reserve a place for some passive work (web site, flyers, t-shirts, dinner, etc.).

Thanks,
Sergey

Most 2004 Champs have been bid, the Board just hasn't voted on, or in some cases, it has and the info has not been updated yet. Other major events are being negotiated.

Individual—MNOC Telemark (Oct)
Medium & Long—BAOC (Nov)
Either North Americans or Open Champs—NEOOC (May/June) (still under discussion)

Given that May/June 2004 is really not that far away does anybody know when USOF will officially announce the location and date of the North American Championship? Also, while on this topic... Is there a process by which elites can request that the events become short (aka middle) and classic (aka long) as per the official IOF distances? There has never been a North American Orienteering Championship short course (despite this being an official IOF distance for over 10 years). I needn't be an official distance for all age-groups but perhaps for 21-34. By the way GHO is bidding for NAOC 2006. Location would be a new map adjacent to the area to be used Days#1 and #3 and this autumns GLOF.

USOF BOD minutes, 12 August:

The 2004 Relay Championships are awarded to Orienteering Maine, to be held on Sunday, September 26, 2004.

The motion was approved: YES – 11, NO – 0, ABSTENTIONS – 2. [...]

The 2004 Night-O Championships are awarded to Orienteering Maine, to be held on September 25, 2004.

The motion was approved: YES – 13, NO – 0, ABSTENTIONS – 0.

What? They plan to have the Relay Champs the day after the Night Champs?

So far I don't see much commitement from the USA Team members here (except for Vlad who is the team administrator, Mihai who is in C team, and myself who is in B team). That is not enough to organize high level events. May be we need to go to USA team email list and make it more publicly known so more USA team members would commit. Otherwise, it does not make sense.