Discussion: SFR Punching System provisionally approved for FootO World Ranking Events

The IOF Council has decided to grant provisional approval for the use of SFR Punching System in Foot Orienteering World Ranking Events.

The provisional approval will expire in two years and it is possible for SFR to seek final approval after a minimum of one year period.

(www.orienteering.org)

Cool. But what is SFR Punching?

Soviet Fast Rate Punching of course

In Russia, control punches you (very rapidly!)?

Canada has experience with Soviet punching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ydbATVriqA

There are three things you can watch endlessly: fire, water, and Canada getting beaten by Soviets

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyzskCaeN4

Attackpoint SFR discussion: http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...

I already have SFR card - the "petal" model - but haven't used it yet.

It is unfortunate the system was not designed the other way around. Lightweight $3 control unit would be nice for urban events and trainings. It wouldn't that big loss if one gets stolen time to time. And we could place it in flag for trainings. I could imagine some clubs with SI/Emit gear might purchase set and start using it for some events/trainings if designed differently. It is not that tempting as it is now.

Tried installing SFR software (SFR event centre), seemed to install OK but when launched comes up with "Error reading PrintDialog1->copies: Operation not supported on selected printer"

Anyone have more success?

English setup on site designed for 32-bits Windows (x86).
In 64-bit versions:

1. Install software - for ex. in c:/Program Files(x86)/SFR event centre
2. Delete file winspool.dll in c:/Program Files(x86)/SFR event centre
3. Copy c:/Windows/SysWOW64/winspool.drv to c:/Program Files(x86)/SFR event centre
4. Rename to winspool.dll

After this the program must start normally.
Now new software (SFR O-Fest) is near the end of develop.
Provisional ready date - march 2015. sfr-system.com will start at same time.

Why didn't I think of that?

Lightweight $3 control unit

Yes, but nobody prohibits you from using NFC on your phone. Problems: battery life, sweat, sun. Only the last one is intractable.

Do you seriously think hundreds of regular orienteers here would happily start running with their smart phones or buying dedicated smart phones for orienteering use and making DIY tricks to make them weather proof? I'd say it will not happen. But if a club or a weekday event begins to use a dedicated system designed like that, that would be different story. But no club/series here will start using SFR because it is not designed that way around, so there is no much advantages over the system we currently use.

I go to a trail run just about every weekend. More than 50% of the participants carry/wear a phone. People post selfies and complain there's no signal in the canyons. It's true that we have good weather in California most of the time, but not always. It's not always been like that, most of the hardcore old-time regulars don't do that, but in the past 5–7 years we had a sizable influx of new, younger blood and most of these people don't see anything wrong with facebooking from the trail.

On the other end of my spectrum, my Russian friends report that a majority of the kids are nowdays happy to carry/wear a phone if it provides real-time tracking and peace of mind to parents. This is definitely a harsher-weather environment, but at least they aren't on the course for too long.

You are correct that existing participants will be unlikely to change, but the existing participants are also the ones who brought the sport to the brink of irrelevance at least in North America, so we shouldn't think too hard about them. A barebones unlocked phone with NFC costs about U.S. $120–140 (there is a steep price increase from non-NFC models), and at least in the U.S. providers often discount these things somewhat.

SFR can be used in reverse mode. But really it happened only in trophi raids.
I don't no why.

T/D, I don't think it that different here, lots of orienteers carry smart phones for social media reasons, carrying it in upper arm strap for tracking and taking it out to take some selfies. It's not that common among kids - they usually take race too seriously to have time for it - but older participants (=young adults) do it. Even I do it occasionally. That being done by those who like to do it is just quite different thing than using it for timing and punching and also expecting everyone would use such devices for timing&punching and counting on it works. Here also trail runs use dedicated devices/chips for timing. Do they use solely smart phones for timing in those trail runs you go to? Have they find it reliable and handy enough for trail run timing?

No, nobody has gone up the smartphone-for-trail-run-timing path yet. I don't know if people tried or not. Here all race timing consolidated over the past 5 years or so on a single RFID platform, cheap tags, very expensive mats. The tag is mounted on the race number, not tied to shoes like some used before—participants strongly prefer this arrangement. So, the reader needs quite high power to reach. And if the race organizer wants more checkpoints than a single start/finish, she has to raise fees even beyond wanton Silicon Valley levels.

We have done experiments with live intermediate checkpoints with smart phones. Phones strapped around a tree by the course along the course, constantly scanning nearby BT devices. Runners (those who want to get intermediate times) carry any BT device (usually phone or BT gps logger) those scanners can identify. When a phone sees any BT device it sends timestamp to server, server updates result list. Not used for timing but just approximate intermediate times for those who like to be listed. Runners need to register BT MAC addresses in advance to get listed with real name. It works reasonably well.

Videos from St.Petersburg championships 2013-2014 on IOF site. SFR-system used.
http://orienteering.org/resources/videos/#stp

Well, why not use people's phones (or tablets/phablets) for both NFC punching and for a map? It would get rid of arguments about best scale, and save printing costs. E-punch cards and paper maps are soooo 2014...

@Jim; I sure as heck don't want to have to carry my phone around the woods with me! Breaking a $40 compass or losing a $60 SI card is bad enough. OK, maybe I'm not one of the "Cool Kids", but I'm not interested in destroying my phone.

You can't fold a phone either.

Ideally you wouldn't carry your precious $400 phone, but a $40 one. Not the same one you use to surf the net. Borrowable at the registration. Same price as SPORTident card, and less easy to lose track of. The prices aren't there yet, but they will be.

Can my $40 phone be strapped to my finger?

@tRicky: depends on whether or not you have the latest iphone...

I think an overwhelming majority of people use electronic devices to view maps now, so dismissing them entirely isn't going to help grow the sport.

There are apps now that allow you to view a GPS-enabled orienteering map, so I think I'll make that available at the series of events I'm directing later this year.