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Training Log Archive: jennycas

In the 31 days ending Oct 31, 2015:

activity # timemileskm+m
  rogaining3 29:23:00 18.02 29.0 1260
  running13 11:41:48 10.56 17.0 250
  swimming3 1:48:00 1.86(57:56) 3.0(36:00)
  riding1 20:00
  Total19 43:12:48 30.45 49.0 1510

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Saturday Oct 31, 2015 #

10 AM

running long 1:32:50 [3]
shoes: Asics Kayano 19

Up Randell's, down Gloucester. Seemed a wee bit humid and I was sweating buckets on the ascent; needed to rest and stretch at the top. The breeze on the way down was nice though, and so I thought that if I could just grab a drink from the toilets at the shopping centre I'd be right to go up Hillrise for a bonus hill and back across the trainline. The only flaws in this plan were that the water from the taps in the toilets at Pasadena Green is hot water only, and that I got a bit sunburnt by the end.

riding 20:00 [3]

Just riding to/from Perry Ave was enough to upset my knees.

Friday Oct 30, 2015 #

Note

Really would have liked to finish everything I needed to do at work before 8pm (the tireder I get, the slower I get) but losing the afternoon on Wed to a meeting in the city set the rest of my week back by half a day as usual.

Wednesday Oct 28, 2015 #

7 PM

running 43:48 [3] 8.0 km (5:29 / km) +250m 4:44 / km
shoes: Asics Kayano 19

After a meeting in town, figured I'd go for a decent run before WA committee meeting at the Cuttens' at Rosslyn Park, but some of the time window was used up by going for drinks with colleagues, so this was a short but steep and scenic, gin-and-tonic-fuelled run up Kensington Rd through Auldana to the Skye ridgeline at 400m then back down Coach Rd and The Parade.

Tuesday Oct 27, 2015 #

6 PM

running 42:50 [3]
shoes: Asics Kayano 19

First Morialta run of the season for me (also don't know when I last went on a group run). We went up to Deep View then across to the top of First Falls & down. Think I need to get a bit fitter!

Afterwards Brian & Charmaine joined us for dinner which was nice, because this is his last week as an Arrow :(

Monday Oct 26, 2015 #

Note

Verrry tired today, not helped by being awake before 5 for a 7am flight back to Adelaide. Work was not noticeably productive! Also my shoulders were surprisingly sore; I can only think this was because of grabbing on to trees on Sat during downhill slaloms or when fighting through vegetation.

Sunday Oct 25, 2015 #

Note

I commented to Blair over breakfast that if the rogaine had been a 24 hour, then we'd still be out there...I don't think I could have coped with 24 hours of going through that stuff, which while it was definitely not the worst I've been in, made the Aust Champs at Capertee seem mostly quite open by comparison. Elevation gain yesterday was, according to my teammate, the same as running Point to Pinnacle will involve.

Anyway, spent a full Sunday chairing the OA level 3 controllers' workshop, which was in itself a sort of marathon and I was pretty wrecked by the end. It was great to have a turnout of over 20 but necessary to get through the compulsory curriculum on a tight timeline (partly because of people's flights), while at the same time allowing the opportunity for everyone to express their opinions/relate their own experiences. I never can predict which seemingly innocuous discussion point will accelerate into a heated debate!

Saturday Oct 24, 2015 #

12 PM

rogaining race (Otway Coast 6hr) 5:53:00 [4] 29.0 km (12:10 / km) +1260m 10:00 / km
shoes: Asics GT-2000

6/12hr rogaine at Aireys Inlet; a dozen or so controls in the coastal town strip and the rest in the bush, which the organisers kept warning everybody at the briefing was "really, really thick". They'd had to modify the course because of some waterworks, removing 7 controls in the east and adding 3 in the west; I almost wished that Blair & I were doing the 12 hour because then cleaning up the entire course would have been a solid goal (as it turned out, the 12hr winners fell 40 points short of this).

With a 6hr as a subset of a 12hr it's a bit harder to know whether you've chosen the optimal controls to leave out, but we decided against the low-scoring coast and headed for the hills, which were described as having tall timber on the steeper lower slopes and heathland higher up. Heathland turned out to mean Epacris impressa (all white, rather than pink) and also some low-growing tea-tree (Leptospermum, not to be confused with Melaleuca) among the eucalypts. In between these two levels the steep slopes had young wattles through which it was possible to push, although visibility was poor and the long-grass-like tussocky plants kept grabbing at my ankles. Particularly annoying when I can't move foot A because it's caught by a long strand, the end of which foot B is standing on!

Our goal was to cover approx 5km (actual distance, not straight line) or get 4 controls each hour. I think we got pretty close to this: 51, 61, 80, 72 in the first hour; 53, 83, 71, 63 in the second hour; 62, 81, 47, 92 in the 3rd hour; 60, 65, 90, 73 in the 4th hour; 91, 74, 54 in the 5th hour and finished off with 70, 66, 44, 45 and had 7 min to spare. The blip in the 5th hour was caused by a truly horrible gully crossing where the vegetation twined and tangled around everything, including my neck - being garrotted by cutting-grass is not my idea of a good time. I was starting to get seriously claustrophobic but then Blair announced that he had popped out of the thicket on to the track which we wanted. All we had to do was climb up one more hill (by this time my hip flexors were refusing to lift over anything, including grass tussocks) and the rest was track running, much of it downhill. Surprised by how many teams we saw in the last hour who looked like they weren't going to make it back by 6pm.

Throughout the whole event we hadn't seen any teams who definitely looked as though they were going faster than us (apart from right at the beginning) so I was hopeful of us winning but didn't expect to do so by 260 points, which was a pleasant surprise. Also it was nice to catch up with Peter Taylor and family; theirs appears to be an evolving rogaining dynasty :)

Friday Oct 23, 2015 #

9 AM

running 1:17:30 [3]
shoes: Asics Kayano 19

Flew into Melbourne fairly late last night and this morning from Fairfield went for a run down the river to Studley Park Boathouse. It has to be said, after seeing the great waterways of Europe, that the Yarra is not quite as significant as the Danube. And Dights Falls are a little bit smaller than the Rheinfall at Schaffhausen! Took me a bit longer to get back from there than I had expected, and I was in a hurry to meet Anne for brunch. After which I'd intended to update my presentations for the controllers' workshop but ended up spending the afternoon with another friend and her baby instead.

Thursday Oct 22, 2015 #

7 AM

swimming 35:00 [3] 1.0 km (35:00 / km)

Dunno why those fit young guys were doing 'sprints' in *my* lane?
Hip wasn't the greatest after this either.

Wednesday Oct 21, 2015 #

8 AM

Note

Attack of the Killer Masseuse
Hip didn't bother me today but there was simply no time for a run because of trying to organise two workshops at once. Shame, because it was perfect running weather. Got home from work approx 8 min before the start of OA board meeting.

Tuesday Oct 20, 2015 #

Note

Not a great hip day which was a shame as it would have been a good running day (if I didn't have so much else to organise this week). Did manage dinner at the pub with the birthday boy :)

Monday Oct 19, 2015 #

7 PM

running (Shepherds Hill) 1:02:50 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Mostly fairly sedate and ploddy, although I tried hard on the 2 solid hills. Trying to decide which shoes will be best for 6 hours of running this weekend. Detoured past the big loquat tree on the way back through the suburbs, but they're not quite ripe yet.

Sunday Oct 18, 2015 #

7 PM

running 46:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Hmm, which would I prefer to do this afternoon; go to a baby shower or a rogaine committee meeting? In the end I did both - after I escaped from a room full of oestrogen (40 women in the same room is about 35 too many) I went to the meeting at Piccadilly, after which I had time for a short run: up Sprigg Rd at sunset, around Mt Bonython, and back down Gores Rd before the light had faded. Knees didn't like the sustained downhill but legs were otherwise ok. The rest of me is still super-tired though.

Saturday Oct 17, 2015 #

6 PM

running 59:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Finally the fog in my brain has lifted but unfortunately it was necessary to spend a significant chunk of the day at work. Had arranged to meet parents for dinner at Brighton Jetty and they were walking the 3km from their home so I decided to run the 11km from mine. G kindly met us there and drove us all home afterwards :) There's a lot of pavement between my place and the beach (which was nice when I finally got there) and a brand new tight spot in the inside of my knee developed within 10 min; I thought I was going to have to turn back but with stretching and massage it became ok. Not sure how a long run will go tomorrow though.

Friday Oct 16, 2015 #

7 PM

running 40:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Hip has been intermittently really bitchy but in between times completely fine over the past few days. Not running on it doesn't seem to make any difference, so I went for a run. It was a golden sunset evening and there was also warm rain. Plus no hip pain until after I finished. Aggravating factor often seems to be wearing any sort of clothing which drags downwards on my hip joint - even stockings.

Thursday Oct 15, 2015 #

7 AM

swimming 36:00 [3] 1.0 km (36:00 / km)

Made it to staff meeting on time.

Wednesday Oct 14, 2015 #

8 AM

Note

Attack of the Killer Masseuse
Tight knees & calves. Hip played up afterwards.

Tuesday Oct 13, 2015 #

Note

I've never been stoned but the post-rogaine feeling is sort of how I imagine it must be: extremely vague, randomly & inappropriately cheerful, ravenously hungry!

Monday Oct 12, 2015 #

Note

There were a plethora of restaurants open in Katoomba on Sunday night, even after we'd finally got clean & decent at 8pm, and we ate the best potato wedges with sour cream & sweet chili sauce that I've ever come across :)

I think about food A LOT. And I can't seem to survive without carbohydrates. Here's what I ate on the rogaine, after having pasta for breakfast:
6 baked potatoes with cheese & Vegemite (they do get a bit manky after a while though);
5 muesli bars;
5 or 6 dried bananas;
a few handfuls of fennel Taralli (like pretzels but bigger, better and more Italian);
half a dozen pieces of my banana flapjack which I whipped up late on Thursday night by mashing together 3 overripe bananas with oatmeal (both oat flakes & porridge oats), adding cinnamon & currants for flavouring, a handful or two of flour to thicken it up and then spreading thinly on a tray and baking in the same oven as the potatoes;
plus I had salt tablets, magnesium tablets, Kopiko coffee lollies (which are the best way of keeping awake in the night);
caramel slice and an elderly orange at the ANC.

I have decided that I'm no good with immediate-release sugar (lollies) or protein bars, and that rather than mixing any drinkable Powerade I'll just take some powder with me to eat straight from the Ziplock bag when I feel a bit low on electrolytes. All my food was easy to identify and efficient to access. Pleased also with having avoided any serious fatigue/weariness in the night although I did get the usual 11pm slump which was warded off with Kopiko. Knees were ok until afterwards, and my hip started to hurt really badly about 8pm but surprisingly this responded to Panadol (on a background of pre-emptive anti-inflammatories). No blisters to speak of. The big toenail which probably would have suffered was already destroyed in the 12 hour.

So, lots of positives to take away from this, and it was hopefully good hill training for Point to Pinnacle! Was still fairly tired on the drive into Sydney, and the flight home, and at work on Tuesday, and have heaps to do with organising a L3 controllers' workshop, the minigaine (although the setters have done all the hard work) and a conference workshop all in the next month, so think that my training for a half marathon with 1270m climb is probably going to be suboptimal.

Sunday Oct 11, 2015 #

12 AM

rogaining race (Aust Champs) 11:30:00 [4]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Found 98 just on midnight; we were cautious and checked out a couple of extra unmapped gullies first, then ended up too high and had to drop to the control. So I say it was a bit lower than mapped, but others say it was too high. Either way, something was weird with the bearing we took NE to 62; we stopped way too short, met up with another team who had gone off the edge of the spur and found a creek they didn't expect. Started heading west to relocate and ended up unexpectedly back at 98. Tried again, going further on an easterly bearing this time but somehow ending up too far north and having to cross a gully to get to the knoll with the control on it, when from the map we should have just needed to go down the spur until we hit a broad flat saddle. Again, I overestimated the anticipated broadness/flatness.

So, this leg took us an hour and a half, but worse was to come. We hurried down the spur to the north, catching up to 2 older guys and the Kiwi couple, Mark & Annie but then slowing right down to fight through some thick stuff. At one point I was breaking a not-very-good path through the kangaroo thorn for 6 of us. 47 was easy, and 78 should have been too; take a bearing NE off a track bend looking for a shallow gully in some comparatively flat young native pines. This didn't work out so well for us, and we overshot the gully entirely (possibly too low?). Headed back to the first creek we'd crossed, and tried again, going due east. Followed the gully we did find, all the way up to the fence line, encountered Mark & Annie, listened to what they'd attempted so far, ruled that out as an option and tried to triangulate off the track again, from the gate with them in tow. Still no control, back to the first creek, and due north of where it became a channel. Still too high, started meandering down, and Zara spotted the control flag, in a vague hanging gully which did not have the same direction as the creek even though the map said they were parallel. Phew! We'd spent over 2 hours on this, though, and probably would (definitely should) have given up sooner if it wasn't for the other team being with us. And I'm willing to bet that if the controls had been made of corflute, as they are in SA, rather than being just an O-flag with no reflective qualities, we might have seen the damn thing on one of our previous 3 passes through the area.

Oh well, it was now after 4am - where had the (moonless) night gone? The 4 of us picked our way down the creek towards 102, which from the map was on a little spur only 10m above the creek junction but on the ground was waaay up the hillside, about 40m climb it seemed. From here it was up to the ridgeline for 72, with the faintest lightening in the sky. From the top of the ridge we could see the new crescent moon rising pinkly in the dawn sky, and the scarves of cloud hanging in the canyon valleys below. It's moments like this which make having been up all night worthwhile - that and the fact that the ANC was still going when we got there at 6:30am (looked like it had been fairly well ravaged and pillaged by the hungry hordes in the night, but I got a cup of tea and the second-last piece of caramel slice, which went down well). We were off our feet here for half an hour, replanning the remnants of our route, and I probably should have put a second layer on then but I hadn't done so all night - just wore a t shirt for the whole rogaine - and we were about to climb another big hill, to 99. From which we dropped straight away to 71, then up the track to 80, then down into the valley to 67 on the banks of the Capertee river. Along the river under the beautiful big sheoaks to 93, up the track and then up a massive hill to 85, slightly miscalculating the place where we'd hit the ridgeline, which was my fault and I then turned south instead of north (every time we gained a 5 min buffer by being efficient on one leg, we'd seem to lose it and more on the next control; we weren't moving too slowly though by our standards). Surprised how much some of this area reminded me of Kangaroo Crossing or the Warbys O-maps; even though the rock wasn't granite, the native pines and hanging valleys seemed very familiar.

Down to the track, up to 75, along the ridge to 95 and then my fried brain did a dumb thing in the warmth of the morning sun. Would have been logical to go around the ridge to 83, our last control perched high on a saddle above the hash house valley - but no, I thought we could short cut across the gullies. Didn't seem nearly as steep as expected...Turned out I'd navigated us along, instead of across, the major gully and we hit the ridge 300m east of the control but then turned further east. The OH CRAP moment of realisation came with only 30 min to get back; by the time we reached the control there were only 22 min remaining and 100m of descent to do in the first 500m of the 1.5km leg to the HH. Easily achieved with a bit of jogging - thank goodness the gully floor was clear - and then I realised we'd still have to ford the Capertee river. And I hadn't got my feet wet all rogaine! The ford I knew to be knee deep and quite wide, from driving through it on the way in, so it seemed simpler to squelch through the trickle immediately downstream, which turned out to involve the blackest smelliest mud I have ever come across (and which caused me to later donate my shoes to a rubbish bin in Katoomba, but Zara couldn't do that because hers were brand new!).

We jogged in with less than 3 min to spare, to an ecstatic welcome from Carolyn (tinytoes) which was lovely, just like having my mum there. By the time I had staggered across to the campground, removed shoes & ankle tape and some of the dirt, a couple of splinters but none of the scratches, and put clean clothes on, then headed back to the hash house, there was no food left. Unless you count a scraping of rice, a smattering of salad, some slices of bread and processed meat. Which I don't (where's my BBQ that I have been hanging out for over the last 24 hours? A rogaine is the only time that I eat sausages) so I went back and ate my 2 remaining baked potatoes with cheese & Vegemite then returned for the presentations.

3rd women's, 2nd women's vets, on 2940 points. Surprised to later find out that this was 21st place overall; I'd have expected it to be lower given that Rob Preston's 1st placed team had over 4300 points (nobody cleaned up the course). 2nd women had 3130, which I think we could have managed if we'd not got so lost in the night. They were 15th, and Thor & Tamsin were 11th on 3310, so I'm pretty sure we couldn't have managed first women. Guessing we covered less than 50 km. Need to get about 10% fitter before next July, and stop making massive mistakes. I don't know what's wrong with my navigation lately!

Anyway, it was a really good experience and enjoyable rogaine with lovely scenery and both Zara & I decided it was definitely worth all the stress & effort of getting there. Getting to Katoomba afterwards was an effort too, because we were both so tired. It took about 3 hours to drive, plus we had a nap at Capertee Valley lookout, so we didn't arrive at the motel until 7pm.

Saturday Oct 10, 2015 #

12 PM

rogaining race (Aust Champs) 12:00:00 [4]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Zara & I picked up the map and thought "wow, this looks steep"; flat-bottomed creeks and flat-topped ridges, with significant ascents & descents in between. At 1: 25 000 and an area of about 10km x 10km, it looked like the total distance to get all 70 controls would be about 70km and therefore we'd be lucky to do about 50km. It was hard to know which controls were best to do vs leaving out, so we tried fo figure what would be simplest at night and which were the best approach directions. There was a clump of significant points around and above a cliffline in the south which looked lucrative, but it was pagoda country up on the plateau and likely to be slow going. The rest of the course didn't seem to have too many serious cliffs, so that was reassuring.

Headed for the NW corner initially; 36, then up the gully to 64 with sweat dripping off our faces, along the ridge to 91, down the spur to 56 with some hesitations on the way. Not for the last time this rogaine, I expected the flat part of the spur/ridge to be the same width as it would be if it took up that much space on a 1: 50 000 map and so thought we couldn't be in the right place because the flat spot wasn't "wide enough". Down to 37 on the Ullumbra Creek and along the creek to 70 then 105. This was beautifully flat and sheoaky, with water in pools through which Zara splashed "like a puppy dog" as I heard another team say. I refrained from this although did wet my hat before the climb up to 82 and 90, during which the cloud came over and the thunder rumbled closer.

A loud thunderclap above startled us on the way to 48 which should have been a short leg down into a 3-way creek junction, but somehow I crossed the main ridge thinking it was a side spur and, despite checking my compass, ended up going south instead of north, on the wrong side of the ridge. Corrected, dropped into the right gully, hustled a long way down to 103 (this area reminded me a lot of the final day of Easter 2014) then a long way up to 63, scrambling on the slippery rocks because it was now raining, although the precipitation lessened to nothing over the next couple of hours. My shoes were very old and very comfortable and completely devoid of grip, which was particularly awkward when it was wet; later in the night I was backsliding down every creek bank.

55, 97, a loong way up to 68 then down to the water drop, which only had 2 x 20L kegs there; that's basically enough for 20 teams only (we'd spent 6 hours covering 15km straight line and drunk 2L water each). I heard that it ran out later which could have been a serious problem for other teams given that there were only 4 water drops on the entire course - including the All Night Cafe, which was another one to run out of water in the middle of the night.

Now we were in flatter country with a nice track & gully network: 92, 87, 101 on the edge of a deep gorge looking out towards the plateau, just on dark and we saw a lot of teams doing an out-&-back on the track to this one. Torches out, 76, 52, up to the ridge (slight hesitation as to where we'd hit the track) and down to 104, across the steep gully to 34 (silly idea; should have gone around on the track). Leaving this we passed Prong & Dave who explained that going up the plateau was a bad idea and that finding the canyon down the east side could be quite dangerous.

Easy track to 94, steep descent to 57 which led us into our first horribly-sustained kangaroo-thorn thicket, from which we backed out and went down the comparatively clearer spur to the south. Steeep climb up to 62 then out to the track from which we approached 88 at the northern base of the plateau (seemed to take forever crossing a junky gully though) and decided that we'd certainly not do the plateau, because it would be nice to get to the ANC before it closed.

Friday Oct 9, 2015 #

Note

Capertee National Park is a surprisingly long way from anywhere. Originally the rogaine was described as being about 3 1/2 hours from Sydney so I was going to fly in after work (couldn't get Friday off) and stay with my sister-in-law in Penrith & drive the rest of the way Saturday morning.

When the information came out that the HH was more like 4 1/2 hours from Sydney I paid $150 to change my flights to leave @3pm and get in about 5pm, and booked a room in Blackheath for Fri night. This meant needing to leave work about 1:30pm but I didn't end up leaving until 1:45...and was thereby 2 min late for checking my bag in :(

So, another $150 to change my flight but at least it wasn't back to the original time; the irony of that would have been greater than the cost of parking in the short-term car park (because I was running late) for 3 days. As it turned out, the flight which should have gone at 2pm was delayed until 3:30 and got in at 6pm so I still made it to sister-in-law's for dinner (although this meant taking the M5 tollway with the 3.5km tunnel which I hate), and then to Blackheath by 10pm; hadn't got around to packing my rogaine bag though and still had to do that during the all-too-brief planning time after driving 2 1/2 hours in the morning (via Kandos, past the O maps from last year's Easter). Taping ankles takes a while, too, and so I didn't cover my map in Contact but just used a plastic bag and hoped it wouldn't rain too much.

Thursday Oct 8, 2015 #

6 PM

running (Belair) 31:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Short social jog in the park with Fern & Bridget & Zara. Hardly feel as though I've done enough exercise this week to justify carbo-loading. Feeling a little less anxious now that I've confessed to my new boss about needing to leave work at lunchtime tomorrow.

Tuesday Oct 6, 2015 #

7 PM

swimming 37:00 [3] 1.0 km (37:00 / km)

Had a whole lane to myself. I doubt that would have been the case yesterday evening!

Monday Oct 5, 2015 #

10 AM

running 56:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Temperature was reasonable in Emu Plains so I ran from parents in-law's up to Glenbrook via Knapsack Bridge, Elizabeth's Lookout and a lap of Glenbrook Lagoon. Had to walk the steep stairs which were quite rough and washed out - and also I was pretty buggered, so it was good to have an excuse to admire the scenery. Not hugely keen on being on the go for 24 hours next weekend but at least the current forecast of 27 degrees for Mudgee looks manageable.

Sunday Oct 4, 2015 #

11 AM

running (Blue GumSwamp) 57:00 [3] 9.0 km (6:20 / km)
shoes: Asics GT-2000

The original YHA at Hawkesbury Heights/North Springwood burned down in the January 1994 fires; its replacement is an impressive A-frame structure with a single tree trunk as an exposed beam running the full length of the downstairs living area, from which there are views out over the Nepean River towards Richmond. You can't bushwalk directly from here but 5km back up the hill in Winmalee there's a fire trail loop called Blue Gum Swamp, so I ran that while it was still overcast (although warm enough already) and tried not to think about what it could be like going cross-country on a rogaine in sandstone country. While pleasant, this is not anywhere near as impressive a route as descending to the Blue Gum Forest in the Grose Valley below Blackheath (are they seriously letting people trample through there next weekend on a commercially organised trail run? I feel it's sacrilegious to do such a thing in the peaceful Grand Canyon - and I think that about the Wonderland Run in the Grampians also) but there were some impressively-blooming waratahs on the valley descent and flannel flowers in bloom already, on the ridgeline return.

Saturday Oct 3, 2015 #

11 AM

running 44:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Around Glebe - back streets, foreshore, Blackwattle Bay Park, before heading out to Penrith where it was mid-30s (thankfully won't be like that in the mountains next weekend). Knees took a while to warm up but in the end the rest of me got a little too warm in the sun and I tried to find the shadiest streets possible. A bit sad that it's not yet jacaranda/jasmine season in Sydney but the tradeoff is that beautiful rhododendrons and azaleas are still blooming up the mountains. We're staying in the designed-to-be-fireproof little YHA at Hawkesbury Heights and there is no one else around, so I hope we don't have to test its functionality.

Thursday Oct 1, 2015 #

2 PM

Note

Attack of the Killer Physio
Kath implied that it's all downhill once you turn 40, or at least much harder to recover than it used to be. She's talking about strenuous exercise rather than nights out on the town...
6 PM

running 49:00 [3]
shoes: Asics GT-2000

Belair run with Zara, & Callum of course. Pretty tired, and legs hammered after physio, so I needed to walk up the steps. It was a nice evening, and lovely to be out in the park, and this kind of balanced the fairly sombre conversation topic, best summed up as: depresssion could be considered a potentially-fatal illness.

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