Discussion: combining loops and forks in Condes

I am setting a course for a long distance, mass start event using Condes. I would like to add both a butterfly ('loop' in Condes) and 'fork'.
I find that for a fork I need to define my course as a 'relay', which in turn does not allow loops. Vice versa, a 'normal' event doesn't allow for forks.
Has anybody found an elegant trick around this?
Thanks.
Martin, SF Bay Area, California

Are you using Condes 9? It has significantly better gaffling functionality. I've never tried what you're suggesting. Are you creating a course with "unfair" gaffling?
Generally Condes 9 doesn't let you create unfair courses.
Previously whilst planning a large complex relay, To get round odd requirements I had to "hard code" the gaffle. For example you repeat the same controls under each fork or create mutiple courses which are slightly different. I reccomend Condes post v9.0.12 (June), as the earlier version had some bugs in the relay forking that we picked up, though I havn't tested the new one.

It's possible to simulate loops in Condes in relay course mode by defining the loops as leg forks (not particularly elegant - as Keith suggests, you have to repeat the forks to get the desired result). This would allow you to add other forks, but the consequence of this could be that competitors are not running the same courses in aggregate,

One thing to check is the import into your scoring software, and the assignment of combinations/variations that are fair. Many times I've ended up with a course in Condes that prints maps that look fine, but I have to manually create the combination assignments and ensure manually that each team got a fair course (this was for relays). This kinda defeats the idea of letting the computer do the hard work, but it also is a really good check that everything is right, especially if you create a table that has patterns that give you even more confidence you've done the job right. I'd rather do this than trust the computer to assign combinations using a method I'm not certain is correct.

Hi all
Many thanks for all the suggestions. I am actually not doing a relay but a long distance event (with mass start) which contains a butterfly and a fork (competitors can choose which one to run). So the map should contain both a butterfly (with varying sequence on individual maps) *and* both legs of a fork. Sounds like the solution is to insert them manually.

Martin

Its probably easiest to set up the course butterfly and with one fork only, then draw the alternate forks by hand. That way the control numbers should all come out right. Combining forks and loops is not possible at the moment.

Thanks!

M