Discussion: Kids and 1:25 000 maps

Hey all. I'm doing an introductory programme to O' for some 11-12 year old kids in Scotland and the planning was all going well until the Principal said he would like me to get them to use some National Survey 1:25 000 maps in the programme too. I can figure out how to use them in the first two classroom sessions, but I'm a bit stuck as to how to fit them into the outdoor sessions, which are on two lovely little orienteering areas that are only 1.5 or so square inches on a 1:25 000 map. Has anyone used maps like these in sessions with school groups before? Any tips or suggestions on how it could be done?

Cheers!

mmm, 1:25 000 is extreme scale for an o map.
The detail will be tiny.
My sugestion is use the maps to give the kids an idea of the surrounding terrain and place there possition on a macroscopic scale.
Then use a 1:2500 map for the area you wish to use.
This is an easy conversion in the scale for the kids to do and the focus on there current location in terms of the park/forest ect.

That failing set a course on the 1:25 000 map as if it was a 1:2500 and get the principle to run it and see if he cares afterwards about the scale.;)

Hee hee, think the latter suggestion is my favourite! He has honourable intentions does the Principal but I'm not sure he has any idea of the scale we work at in O! Other suggestions have included following where they're going on the way there on the 25 000 map - I think this is maybe the best plan!

1:25000 government maps may be terrible for orienteering, but they make awesome road maps.

1:24K/1:25K is a great scale for Rogaine's and Adventure Races where a "short" leg is 2K. I don't see how you could do anything practical with kids on that scale.

However, you could certainly show them how detail gets generalized as the scale is changed. You could also demonstrate what scale actually means by holding the 1:2500 map 10 times further away and pointing out to the that the visual distances between major features are the same. The best explanation of scale that I've come across is that if you hold the map 1 foot from your face, you are seeing the terrain as if you were in an airplane where the altitude in feet is the scale.

Hmm. I don't have any suggestions for what you can do with 1:25 outdoors, other than distributing these maps, having the kids point out that the map isn't very useful for the small orienteering areas, and then giving out 1:10 maps. :)

During the outreach sessions I've done with OUOC, we usually give the kids maps (I believe at 1:25 scale) of the local area and ask them to find their school and their house on the map. Then they must draw the route that they take to get to school and decide whether it is the best/fastest one. Perhaps to turn this into an outdoors exercise, you can ask them to look at these maps while walking home after school and label some of the buildings and roads.

When I taught orienteering at university, I had one session on a government topo (1:24,000 or 1:25,000), on the idea that lots of the students wanted orienteering skills in order to be able to use government topos on hikes, or while hunting or fishing, or back country skiing, or so forth. It was always an exercise in frustration for the students, who turned out to be more interested in orienteering as orienteering, so eventually I dropped that, and stuck to orienteering maps.

"During the outreach sessions I've done with OUOC, we usually give the kids maps (I believe at 1:25 scale) of the local area and ask them to find their school and their house on the map. Then they must draw the route that they take to get to school and decide whether it is the best/fastest one. Perhaps to turn this into an outdoors exercise, you can ask them to look at these maps while walking home after school and label some of the buildings and roads."

Considering I instigated that exercise originally in Outreach it was first on my list for the classroom sessions ;)

For 11 and 12 year olds, if you can simply impress upon them the differences in level of detail and generalisation, between O maps and OS maps, then you've succeeded with respect to OS maps. The problem with using small map scales for classes, in general, is that one has to take more time and cover more distance to encounter the same number of navigation problems as on an orienteering map. This can be okay when teaching longer sessions with very fit adults (adventure racers, for example), but it's totally unsuitable for short sessions or for teaching children how to navigate.

I really like the idea of the kids using the OS map to identify certain points or features on the way to the orienteering venue. This would probably require the guidance of you or a teacher. Otherwise, the kids will just use the time in transit to talk with their friends.

Hehe. That's funny (but totally believable) that you came up with the idea, Becky! It's a good one. :)

Assuming you do use orienteering maps, make sure you emphasize to the Principle how using them can improve the learning experience. Like Eric said, their higher detail allows many more navigational challenges to be placed in a small area. As an educator, he should understand the benefits of repetition and rapid feedback.

He probably just asked for 1:25000 because he thinks it will increase the relevance, and in some regards he is right. But if you can show how orienteering maps improve learning, I'd expect him to quickly agree with you.

My suggestion would be to ask the principal if when he goes to the hospital for an operation does he tell the doctor what tools to use? Or when he takes his car for repair, etc. Make sure he understands you are the expert in this field, you've taught umpteen dozen beginners before, etc, and you are qualified to know how to teach the subject.

That said, I do like some of the suggestions above.

Getting a grasp of scale seems to be one of the toughest hurdles for beginners. Another suggestion would be to draw the same training course on both your orienteering map and your government map. Hold them up side-by-side and explain that it's the same course and ask why it's so big on one and so small on the other, etc, etc. Then ask which one will be easier to navigate with and once the correct answer is established, toss the other into the nearest trash receptable while saying "Well, I guess we won't be needing THIS then..." :-)

I've also taught navigation to a number of 10-15 year olds. One problem I found with large scale government maps is that they often have large generalizations or errors. This makes learning very difficult. (Wrong feedback is even worse then no feedback).

Still, I wanted the kids to be able to use large scale maps in the end. They can get to this point if they understand good navigational techniques like how to use linear catching features. When working with scouts, I like to finish a week of training with an adventuresome cross country hike on a regular map. They tend to really like it.

I agree with others about using them for an overview or as comparison to O (or similar scale) maps. I ran a clinic for a Girl Scout troop once and I started with a 1:2000000 scale map and had them find where we were, within a few dozen miles. ;-) It was both a good comparison to bigger scale maps as well as a way of demonstrating how people use maps in the "real world" (or as close as my world gets to being "real").

I try to avoid saying "large scale" or "small scale" because it's confusing, and my idea of a trick question.

Sprint maps are large scale.
Maps of large areas are small scale---The larger the area, the smaller the scale.

The explanation for this is the scale is considered a fraction, and 1/5000 is a larger number than 1/2000000, for example.

I usually say something like "maps of small areas" and "maps of large areas".

I also like putting a "1cm = " line on maps for workshops, as in:

Scale 1:5000
1cm = 50m