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Discussion: O.MOV

in: Orienteering; General

Oct 9, 2012 4:50 AM # 
c.underwood:
Has there been any thought of making a new Orienteering USA promotional video? This one is getting a little old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v58-RqssqUc
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Oct 9, 2012 5:12 AM # 
DangerZone:
Good look.
Oct 9, 2012 1:12 PM # 
JanetT:
I nominate Run_Boscoe to make an update. :-)

Note: the original was first sold for about a year or so to clubs and interested parties (on VHS, no less!), before being uploaded to YouTube and made generally available.
Oct 9, 2012 1:22 PM # 
Nixon:
Here's BOF's one for comparison, pretty good I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-H9Tm2cuSU&feature...
Oct 9, 2012 1:24 PM # 
gordhun:
I'd never seen that video before. I like it. With the exception of Samantha, PG and one or two others I found myself wondering 'where are they now?' The filming was great.
Next time around cut back (not cut out) the intense running by the elite and put in something highlighting the larger market - the over 40's- and the most important market - the youth groups like JROTC and other school teams.
Talk about things like weekly events close to home in urban parks.
ETC
Oct 9, 2012 2:12 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
If you keep marketing to over-40s, you end up with... over-40s.
Oct 9, 2012 2:26 PM # 
j-man:
and then 50s, and 60s, etc... because we are talking about (shrinking) cohorts, not a real flow.
Oct 9, 2012 2:35 PM # 
haywoodkb:
promotional video for the younger guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOI9kKuA4I
Oct 9, 2012 2:39 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
No youngsters really want to hang out in the woods with the OFs, do they? Target marketing to over-40s is perhaps the worst possible: it seems to be almost certain to inherently limit your appeal to the younger age groups. Even those Rogaine commercials use late-20s/early-30s models.
Oct 9, 2012 2:51 PM # 
j-man:
And conversely, youth want to roll with the older crowd. Best models for this purpose, IMHO, would be late teens, early 20s.
Oct 9, 2012 4:01 PM # 
Pink Socks:
Here's a good one from Austria.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kecx2et3miA
Oct 9, 2012 8:13 PM # 
gordhun:
I repeat: cut back; not cut out.
Funny thing about the over 40 market is that every year they make millions more of them and every year those new 40+ and 50+ have more disposable income and more time and inclination to travel, especially once their 20 something kids leave the nest.
There is not much money/ return in putting on events for the student and young adult orienteers. They tend to want to be pampered and have freebies. The real return is going after the master athlete market.
The second best target market is parents wanting their school age children to be a bit more active and much more aware of the great outdoors.
For example look at those stars of the 2002 video. Who are still around? - the old fart and the youngsters who had been brought out by their parents
Oct 9, 2012 8:17 PM # 
j-man:
"Who are still around? - the old fart and the youngsters who had been brought out by their parents"

If that is the case, I'm buying US O Team futures and selling Canada.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world...

With all due apologies.
Oct 9, 2012 9:19 PM # 
Pink Socks:
I don't even. I give up. Again.
Oct 9, 2012 9:24 PM # 
j-man:
Please don't. Most of those who accomplish great things never wait for approval or for something to make it through a committee.
Oct 9, 2012 9:27 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
I propose BPH.MOV and Arthritis.MOV
Oct 9, 2012 9:34 PM # 
Cristina:
And the prequel, Pajamas.MOV
Oct 9, 2012 10:49 PM # 
Pink Socks:
Please don't.

To clarify, I'm giving up stating my case on AP. It feels like I keep saying the same things over and over again, and I'm worn out.

I'll continue to do the things that I do locally. At least I know I can have an effect.
Oct 9, 2012 11:02 PM # 
j-man:
Right. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
Oct 10, 2012 3:17 PM # 
bubo:
Promotional video for one of the most popular junior events in Sweden - DalaDubbeln:
(check the photo archive and you´ll understand why...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puwzif6xp9M
Oct 10, 2012 4:26 PM # 
GuyO:
@Pink: Please don't stop sharing your ideas on AP! I suspect a sizeable -- albeit silent -- crowd is taking in every word.
Oct 10, 2012 4:37 PM # 
Canadian:
@Pink Socks - I listen to every word you say and agree with it all too. While I haven't completely given up posting to AP I often find it easier to work silently in the background - though you may not realise it do you have an attentive audience.
Oct 10, 2012 4:56 PM # 
cmorse:
At the inevitable risk of getting flamed, I just re-watched the video after not having watched it for many years, and I've seen many of those faces at more recent events - so the point of all these people having disappeared doesn't seem valid - they're not all on the current elite team, but they haven't given up the sport by any means.

And if I recall correctly, the goal of this film when it was made was to portray orienteering as an exciting, action filled sport to specifically reach out and grab the younger demographic and dispell the notion of orienteering as a stodgy old map & compass game. I don't believe it was ever intended to be a broad based attempt to explain orienteering to multiple demographics.

I do agree that the production feels dated and could stand a good makeover to current standards.

I'll step aside and duck now...
Oct 11, 2012 2:31 AM # 
Pink Socks:
Ok, here goes.

Basically, the real question is here: who should we market to?

But first, some recent history. [I ran these numbers over a year ago, and I don't have the spreadsheet file handy. Sorry.]

Here are the demographics from US Classic Champs in New York from 1998 (earliest A-Meet I could find online):

1998
00-20: 21.2%
21-34: 23.6%
35-49: 30.8%
50-64: 21.2%
65-99: 03.1%
Median age class: 35-39 (median age for the US population is 37)

Here are the demographics combined from both the A-Meets in New York and Tahoe in 2011.

2011
00-20: 14.9%
21-34: 11.1%
35-49: 20.3%
50-64: 35.5%
65-99: 18.2%
Median age class: 50-54.

Basically, in the last 13 years, we've seen an orienteering population that once resembled the national average, skew itself much older. So on one hand, we currently have a sport that is doing "well" in the 50+ demographic. On the other hand, it's floundering in the 21-34 demographic. What's more important? Continuing to push for the same? Or trying to reach out?

Those may make the "baby boomer" argument, rationalizing that our demographic shift is because the largest generation in US history (1946-1964) year olds) is aging along with us. But there are an awful lot of Millennials (aka "Echo Boomers"), and they are the second largest generation. Their current ages are ~12-32 years old, essentially the hole we've got in orienteering.

Ok, now let's take a look at cars. People buy a lot of cars, so car companies do a lot of marketing. What the average age of a US car buyer? 51. Hey, that number sounds kinda familiar! It's about the same age as a median orienteer.

Ok, ok, cars and orienteering have nothing to do with each other. But they both need to do marketing. Go watch a bunch of car commercials. How old are the people shown? I can tell you that you won't see a lot of people 50+. Heck, there's a BMW commercial out there right now with high school kids.

Car companies get it. They know that if they focus on younger buyers, there's potential for long-term customers. Brand loyalty, right? Toyota, for example, went and created a new brand, Scion, specifically aimed at younger people. The thought being they'd start with a Scion, graduate to a Toyota, and eventually a Lexus.

And here we are, largely ignoring the young people. And they are hitting up a lot of other events that focus on them: the Mudders, Warrior Dashes, City Chases, Adventure Runs.
Oct 11, 2012 2:36 AM # 
Pink Socks:
(at some point, I may give my $.02 in the rogaine name change debate, but that seems like a lot of work)
Oct 11, 2012 4:50 AM # 
Clean:
Good analogy.
To this day I wouldn't have heard of the sport if not for one European teacher at my high school. I almost didn't see any other youth join my club other than a few people coming in from abroad. No local youth development, save a few kids who learned from their parents.
Thanks for the comparative stats. It's been pretty obvious to me these past 15 years, but stats help.
Oct 11, 2012 6:14 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Lets make the marketing story a little more complex.
At age 57, I am an old fart by some definitions. My definition of old has always been 20 years older than me. Which explains the following.
I love that Austrian video.
I don't want to be reminded that I am 57. I want to delude myself that i am still capable of running looking like that (please, no giggles, perhaps I never did). I don't identify with the images of people my own age. Sad perhaps. ;-)

Now consider the town in which I live. It could be described as provincial. It is certainly in the orbit of the city of Melbourne. Our club seems moderately successful at recruiting young orienteers at the moment. There is an exciting buzz in the air. But we know what will happen. Many will leave town for a brighter future in Melbourne, or Sydney, or Stockholm or somewhere else with more career opportunities. Those that go to Melbourne may join another club there. Our recruitment will generally be good for the sport. But for our junior recruitment system to survive, we need to attract more than juniors. What is clear is that few of these juniors will be orienteering in this town in their adult years. Meanwhile, others are migrating to the town in their adult years, and few have any experience of orienteering. The club survives on the recruitment from the adult pool in the town. I am am one of that group. Without adult recruitment, the club will die, despite success with junior orienteering.
My observation is that there are two very different adult recruits. one group is like me, the Peter pans who can't admit their age. They would all love that Austrian video. There is another group that is intimidated by all that rampant athleticism. Quite a few need to be convinced that there is a place for people that resemble their own image of themselves- not all that athletic, but happy to explore the forest. People such as this have made significant contributions to the club, taking on important roles such as President. We can't afford to discourage them with a single image of the sport. For that group, the British video is much more useful.

So my conclusion is that both Pink Socks and Gordhun are correct. The sport needs both approaches. My town certainly does.

Now I think I'll watch that Austrian video again.
Oct 11, 2012 7:15 PM # 
Run_Bosco:
Compare also to cycling. Average age of a road cyclist? Mid 50s. Average age of model on Bicycling Magazine cover? 25-35. The point is to sell "youth," that participating will keep you young- which is more or less true. You could argue that using 25-35 age models actually IS marketing to 50+. Though, according to Socks' numbers (and just plain observation)-- it is not the class lacking in numbers, so the Masters do not require any extra marketing- they are showing up already.

Also think about why we put high value on appealing to school-age kids. Because we're investing in the long term of the sport. But these kids can't be high-skilled volunteers (course designers, mappers, meet directors) nor do they have money. The 25-35 may not be as rich as the 50-somethings, but they can contribute in real ways.

Additionally, consider that even sports full of recreational (non-competitive) participants-- these folks still love to watch and root for the elite. How many people watching the Tour de France actually race? Very few. But nonetheless, they get pumped up, and go ride their bikes.

History shows that when an American succeeds at a formerly low-profile sport, that the sport experiences a surge in participation.

I try to avoid biting onto off-topic tangents, but as a 27-year old female orienteer, in the smallest age (and gender!) bracket-- I'm a bit shocked that I have to defend targeted promotion of our category. Promotion of our category helps everyone- by investing in the long-term of the sport, bringing in capable volunteers and firing up the masses when we go elite.
Oct 11, 2012 7:50 PM # 
Cristina:
In addition to everything Run_Bosco just said, it's always made sense to me for long-term development of the sport to target people like us - okay, actually, I don't know Run_Bosco, but I know me - over 25 with income, no kids-->free time, energy. People in my age and position in life are at the right point to get hooked on a new fun thing. And then we'll all have kids and bring them to our new fun thing. This is how we create O families, which seems to be the most successful community for continued participation, not just in North America but also in Scandinavia.

These are the people doing Warrior Mud Things, so they are obviously willing to go out and spend $ and try something new. Sure, not a high % is likely to get hooked, but you don't need that many to double your numbers when you're as small as we are. ;-)
Oct 11, 2012 8:13 PM # 
Pink Socks:
Sure, not a high % is likely to get hooked, but you don't need that many to double your numbers when you're as small as we are.

As I've said before, just think about what 1% gets us. 1% of the Warrior Dashers from Seattle gets us 200 people. (And that's just the Warrior Dash, and doesn't include the Tough Mudders, Spartan Race, and other knock-offs.)

That said, I don't know if 1% is possible. Maybe it's more like 0.5%... or 0.1%... or 5%.

Also think about why we put high value on appealing to school-age kids.

What's our success rate with school-age kids becoming adult orienteers? I'm curious to see the numbers, because it seems lower than I would expect.

Here in Seattle, we have the largest junior league in the country. I'll be starting my 8th year in the equivalent adult league, and there are very few young adults who have joined the adult league since then who previously ran in the high school league. That said, I know there are some who left Seattle for college and still continue to orienteer, but that number isn't huge, either.

I could probably dig into these numbers a little bit from our local start stats.
Oct 11, 2012 8:43 PM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Some additional thoughts to add to my observations above.
In this location the conversion from junior to senior orienteering here seems strongly related to representative selection. Getting selected for the State schools team generally motivates a high degree of enthusiasm. Next target is JWOC, then what we call the Bushrangers which might be called a development path for the ultimate, WOC. Each stage is successively harder. These stages coincide with transitions from school to higher education to employment. Those that succeed at each stage generally stay with the sport. There is a high risk of dropout for those who do not succeed at the next selection stage. Is this because we (maybe) unintentionally promote orienteering as an elite sport rather than as a diversion (such as the Mudder phenomena).
One of the most successful recruitment paths for adults is through the initial success of their children in this selection path. They start attending more events and events in other locations as they drive their children to each training and selection opportunity. They experience a wider world of orienteering and often stay with this after their children have left town.
Oct 11, 2012 10:39 PM # 
smittyo:
I'd be happy to see most clubs marketing orienteering. Period.
Oct 11, 2012 11:10 PM # 
bbrooke:
I really like this video from the Polish orienteering federation.

(1) It starts off with a scene familiar to (almost) anyone -- using a map to navigate a busy city -- and then it transitions to the woods.

(2) The second half has interviews that cover several different demographic groups: kids, families, competitive 20-somethings, old guys, etc.

(3) It has a (slightly too long) split-screen illustration of different route choices, and it gives a quick overview of how a course works (start triangle, controls, etc.).

(4) It briefly highlights Ski-O and MTB-O.

(5) It has professional production quality.

Orientacja Sportowa from PZOS.tv on Vimeo.

Oct 11, 2012 11:54 PM # 
Pink Socks:
I'd be happy to see most clubs marketing orienteering. Period.

Locally, I'm getting excited. Our club now has a marketing budget, and the two newest board members are both younger than me and gung-ho about it.
Oct 12, 2012 12:34 AM # 
Clean:
Really love that Polish video, especially the fun first half - really cool transitions. Not just biased cause I'm Polish! :) I had no idea we had this sport in my country. I didn't even know what it would be called. haha. "Orientacja sportowa." okay. I wonder what an orienteer is called.
(...)
I am educating myself. They don't call it a kompas - it's a "busola" - whaaa?
Oct 12, 2012 1:52 AM # 
blegg:
Don't trust anyone who still thinks I'm part of the young-person demographic.
Oct 12, 2012 4:40 AM # 
jjcote:
They don't call it a kompas - it's a "busola" - whaaa?

Yeah, that's another common term for it. In French it's a "boussole", in Italian a "bussola".
Oct 12, 2012 5:15 AM # 
Cristina:
And brújula in Spanish! ¡!
Oct 12, 2012 12:30 PM # 
acjospe:
I see no reason orienteering can't be marketed to both the "I want to be like that young, beautiful, fast-looking model" and the "I want to go outdoors and enjoy the course at my own pace" crowds.

But yes, I'd be happy to see any clubs marketing orienteering to anyone outside of orienteering circles. Personally, I've met resistance when attempting to do that; apparently marketing is just super low on everyone else's priority lists. So I stopped dreaming big and gave up that fight.
Oct 12, 2012 12:43 PM # 
andypat:
"I see no reason orienteering can't be marketed to both the "I want to be like that young, beautiful, fast-looking model" and the "I want to go outdoors and enjoy the course at my own pace" crowds."

I think the problem is that often we try and do both at the same time, and inevitably that part of the marketing aimed at the "anyone can do this crowd" puts off the "I aspire to be an elite athlete" demographic. My own opinion is that marketing should always be aspirational, and that the information that, yes anyone can do this, should be avaialble in a separate package aimed at informing, rather than marketing.

Am hoping this link works as its worth watching!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-_3rH0oOh8&feature...
Oct 12, 2012 1:50 PM # 
mikeminium:
That Polish vid was great! Can anyone provide an English translation of the audio?
Oct 12, 2012 2:14 PM # 
andreais:
Although the above O and Parkurs mix is my favorite, especially also when thinking of my boys, I think the Polish one has a better quality to speak to the breadth of audience. Main stream sports also often cater to the breadth of those interested, from the top athlete, paid millions in some sports, to the spectator, some paying hundreds and not lifting a finger. Broad marketing, or marketing showing the breadth of those involved does not seem to affect as much other sports in turning some down because it is not to their level when addressing novices. I think precisely mixing it all up shows the applicability of orienteering to all levels of fitness, age and level of involvement, and thus would make it more appealing to, say families, to be able to all participate, and not just the top in the family coming, and the rest be only spectators, as you do have in may other sports. Not sure this makes sense... I hope it does
Oct 12, 2012 3:58 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
marketing is just super low on everyone else's priority lists.

If anyone needs proof, just look at your club's budget. Also, think of whether the budget would support any marketing with $7 entry fees.
Oct 12, 2012 4:32 PM # 
Run_Bosco:
Ironman (triathlon) is very successful with their marketing. While a lot of coverage is of the elite athletes, when you watch the Kona championship-- the coverage of the front of the race is sprinkled with "real person stories," stories of those just striving to finish.

Ironman has figured out how to use the elite to inspire, but also to be inclusive and support the "every finisher is a champion" idea. The triathlon community is very positive.

Unfortunately, there is not the same kind of reward in orienteering when you "just finish." Sure, you might find the process enjoyable-- but who gives out finisher's medals?
Oct 12, 2012 4:38 PM # 
Pink Socks:
There's the Billygoat "finisher shirt", I think?
Oct 12, 2012 4:38 PM # 
Tundra/Desert:
Last time I checked, everyone got a medal.
Oct 12, 2012 5:14 PM # 
Clean:
I can translate the Polish video - at least the "techy" first half - the interviews might take a while, that's a lot of text. ;)
Oct 12, 2012 5:31 PM # 
Run_Bosco:
The only "medals" I've gotten are from when I've placed.

A small plaque for 3rd overall in our Winter Series. A couple paper certificates for placing in rogaines, and a bottle of wine for winning one.

T-shirts are usually optional add-ons and are souvenirs to those that register, not finish.

So I've never received a "finisher's medal."

Tundra, where are people getting medals for finishing? In what event/series?
Oct 12, 2012 5:40 PM # 
cwalker:
The point is that there are so few participants and so many age categories that 'everyone' places by default.
Oct 12, 2012 5:43 PM # 
blegg:
I've commented before that I think the Billygoat format has fantastic potential as a marketing tool. The concept of a physically tough race where everyone deserves a prize just for finishing... that's historically right in line with marathons and ironmen.

But technical difficulty is hard to control. If the race is allowed to become too technical (and there's lots of pressure from the regulars to make it more technical), that'll quickly put the race out of reach many. Imagine a marathon where the elite still finished in two hours, but mortals needed 8-10 hours instead of 4-5, and that's what you'd basically have.

I still hold out hope that a creative person can develop a similar race format, that can retain the marketing power of the Billygoat, but with a shallower learning curve.
Oct 12, 2012 5:52 PM # 
Run_Bosco:
A discussion from marathoners about the importance (or non-importance) of finisher medals to them:

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runne...

Personally, I have mixed feelings about finisher's medals. When I complete something that truly required a lot of training and was tough to complete, I tend to like them. When I have a bad race, or I didn't think the difficulty was tough enough to warrant such recognition, or when the age groups are so tiny that everyone places*-- I tend to think the medal is a waste.

*I once was nearly DFL in a mountain bike race, but got "2nd in my age group." It was more embarrassing than rewarding!

At this point, I am a big fan of consumable rewards. The bottle of local wine that I won at the Three15er rogaine was perfect, because it provided tangible recognition of my achievement, I got to 'take a picture with it', bring it home, let it sit on the shelf for a while and admire it.. then finally drink it and move on! No bucket of medals sitting around.

All that said-- I think there is something about the psychology of finisher's medals that is important. Whether we admit to medals being important to us or not, I think there is something more subliminal going on.
Oct 12, 2012 6:26 PM # 
bct:
You have to finish the Billygoat in under 3:30:00 to get a shirt.
Oct 12, 2012 7:40 PM # 
Run_Bosco:
And how many people attend Billygoat?
Oct 12, 2012 8:04 PM # 
Pink Socks:
From 2012. 107 started, 100 finished, 93 earned a shirt.
Oct 12, 2012 11:37 PM # 
Clean:
Are y'all ready for this? Polish video - the translation!!
Video courtesy of the Warsaw-Mazowsze Orienteering Association (WMZOS)

1:32 “Orienteering is a sport that’s close to nature.”

1:37
The outdoors, fresh air, quiet surroundings, hard work, competition, a good challenge. That’s what orienteering is all about.

1:41 – The intro
You’ve decided to give it a try. You’re in an age category where you’ll find some great competitors at your own level. You arrive at the meet. You stand at the start. An official checks your start time. When you hear the beep for your start minute, you get your map – but your clock is already running. Everyone starts individually, and others in your age category will start at intervals after you, so they won’t follow you on the course.
On the map, you’ll see a start symbol, which is connected by a line to the next control point. The map is very precise, drawn according to international standards. It will even have the smallest features, such as a boulder or a pit. You have an electronic chip on your finger. In a split second, you can confirm that you’ve been at a control, and you keep running. The finish is represented by a double circle, and you run to it on the only marked section of the course.

2:51 – The split screen
You chose a route on the left – it seemed like the best choice. But your rival went a different way. At the end, you will find out who picked the better route and had the faster split to the control, but right now you just concentrate on reading the map. You’re running. Once in a while, you check with your map. You monitor your position and carry out the route choice you picked. To save time, you’re already choosing the route to the next control point. Which way will you get around the hill? Should you take the trail? Or maybe you’re feeling tough, and you’ll be faster running straight through the woods?

4:04 – The rest of the race
You find the control. But there’s no need to stop because you already know which way you have to run to the next one. Sometimes you run too fast and lose touch with the map, making a few minor errors. You stop to check your map again. But soon you’re off again – every second counts. You’re almost done – one last control, and a sprint to the finish. You give it your all, because the winner is the one who completes the course the fastest. You download your data from your chip at the finish. You got all the controls in the right order, so you’re good – you won’t be disqualified. Now it’s time to discuss your route choices with other participants who ran the same course as you. It turns out, the others made a few more mistakes than you did, while you had less trouble keeping the correct line and finding the controls.

5:04 – Types of orienteering
You can orienteer all year round. In the summer, you can do orienteering on foot, or you can do bike orienteering if you like. In the winter, you can take part in ski orienteering. People with disabilities can take part in trail orienteering.

“Orienteering is a sport for everyone” 5:53 – The interviews

1. 19-yo preparing for the JWOC: talks generally about the challenge of maintaining speed and accuracy at the same time. Goes on to describe how much more interesting O-courses are because they’re so varied, unlike other types of running competitions.
2. 56-yo running for the past 5 years: says that it’s a fun sport for everyone, even a beginner like him. It’s a combination of great surroundings with using your head, and getting a workout, and working your way up to being competitive.
3. 13-yo’s that like it for how much fun it is. They like the company, the social aspect, and going to meets with people from all over the country.
4. 18-yo whose whole life is O-training: she got hooked in school, and now she trains and competes all the time
5. 27-yo pro orienteer: describes orienteering as his living, but also as a great lifestyle; describes his training volume and some great results at international competitions, esp. in relays.
6. Dad and mom in a family: speak to how much it brings a family together to go to meets and have a great time, not necessarily compete. Talks about how much they love comparing route choices afterwards. Mom says you can just take a walk on the course, or you can run, or you can compete – whatever suits you.

11:35 “I love orienteering because…”
1. I love nature, I love running, I love to think a little (56yo)
2. Every course is a new challenge (girl)
3. The woods are awesome, but it’s also a great competition, especally at the international level, and I’m so happy to get the chance to compete for Poland (the pro)
4. I’ve met the most amazing people (the young female competitor)
5. I love the woods, I love the effort, I love being exhausted, I love running up hill (the mom)
6. Because you can compete against others (youth)
Oct 12, 2012 11:45 PM # 
GuyO:
@andreais: Parkour not so good for this junior's training...
Oct 13, 2012 12:44 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Good script from Poland. !
Oct 13, 2012 12:55 AM # 
bbrooke:
Wow, Aggosst, THANKS!
Oct 13, 2012 4:14 PM # 
Delyn:
https://vimeo.com/51335460
Polish video English subtitles
Oct 13, 2012 5:36 PM # 
Bob-F:
@GuyO - Connor split his knee open last fall Orienteering - so far the Orienteering injuries have been worse than the Parkour injuries
Oct 13, 2012 8:06 PM # 
coach:
The problem with O marketing is not the videos, but getting them seen. I would guess an O video is a lot more interesting than say, one of a NASCAR race (except for the crashes) but it is a hugely popular spectator sport.
Some how we must get the videos in the hands of people who will broadcast them on TV or get them seen on youTube, or can we get one to be a pop-up whenever one types an "O" on their computer?
Oct 13, 2012 8:59 PM # 
bbrooke:
What I have in mind for a video: showing it at the orienteering workshops RMOC (Bob Ellis) puts on at four Denver-area REI stores every spring, and showing it when RMOC is asked to have a booth at a demo or outdoors festival -- something that gives people a quick idea of what orienteering is all about and makes it look interesting / appealing.

Delyn -- great job on adding Aggosst's subtitles!
Oct 24, 2012 8:27 AM # 
barb:
For completeness, from Chris Cassone, the 1988 Orienteering - All Welcome
Nov 3, 2012 3:32 AM # 
Pink Socks:
And some Swiss kids just ratcheted this stuff up a few notches.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Exhibit C
Nov 3, 2012 4:57 AM # 
j-man:
Thanks Socks. Those are invigorating and cinematic, on a number of levels, and are getting a lot closer to must see TV. In my mind, absurd deviations from reality can sometimes highlight how absurd reality is itself, viz., the whole notion and process of "punching" in orienteering. Dispense with it, and you can get closer to the kinetic dynamism suggested in those videos. Standing around and stopping, or even hesitating, is just not as compelling as unbridled, frenetic, no holds barred wilderness running. At least that works for me...
Nov 3, 2012 6:56 AM # 
Pink Socks:
J-man, it's interesting that you said that, because after I posted those links, I finally got around to watching that 1988 movie. And one of the first things I noticed was how much time was wasted showing people punching.

The first orienteer is shown at 0:52, and arrives at the control at 0:59. He spends the next 8 seconds fiddling with the punching process. Over half of that clip is spent showing the guy doing a trivial task.

Two clips later, it shows two people approaching a control 1:14 to 1:17, punching the control from 1:17 to 1:24. 70% of that clip are people just standing there. Combined, that's 15 of the first 32 seconds of "orienteering" shown as just standing there.

The other bit of hilarity is at the start line, following the words "and they're off!" at 5:23. This is followed by TWELVE seconds of everyone turning over the maps and standing there. Hear "and they're off!" before a clip of the 100m dash, and the entire race is over within those 12 seconds!
Nov 4, 2012 7:46 AM # 
gruver:
Well it depends entirely on the market. I think the 1988 movie has lasted surprisingly well (for a market of recreational non-athletic orienteers - but I suppose we have enough of them:-)). OTOH I imagine the Swiss kids' work would appeal to athletic kids who want to race without thinking (they don't appear to look at a map and they all went the same way).
Nov 4, 2012 12:56 PM # 
barb:
So I'm thinking maybe JTESC should spring for a GoPro, and someone should be wearing it at all trainings & events, maybe Erin as a default. It would be nice to make movies like the Swiss ones Pink Socks links to, with some girls in it too.
Nov 4, 2012 1:20 PM # 
barb:
About punching: I'm assuming that at some point in the not too distant future, you won't need to actually punch; you will just have to get into the control circle, or within a few feet of the control. (You'll be tracked somehow.) So de-emphasizing the fumbling with the punching equipment seems like a good move in making the movies.
Nov 4, 2012 1:31 PM # 
barb:
Could we interest some documentary film-makers in following our current juniors as they prepare for next summer? Start soon - or maybe January, following individual orienteers as they train and prepare for the qualifying races, and gather for trainings and meetings, and do their cross-training. Maybe even film the secret deliberations of the selection committee, and a few younger kids who are tracking the progress of their favorites. Tense negotiations between parents and kids or coaches, with conflicts over schoolwork, other sports, raising enough money to go to the qualifiers and then to Europe. Friendly cooperation and competition with Canada. Dealing with injury and making sure to rest. Visit to the Olympic Training Center. Fighting to get the 5k time down. At JWOC, interviews with people from other countries about the North American teams. Then, the surprise victories, or the missteps, whatever comes about during the races.
Nov 4, 2012 2:16 PM # 
bubo:
All of the above would of course make a nice documentary - but it could also be done as a fictional story with a number of "actors".
Nov 5, 2012 12:52 PM # 
Keith Andersen:
I'm still waiting for this movie to hit theaters near me:
THE ORIENTEERERS
Nov 5, 2012 1:44 PM # 
ndobbs:
I'm waiting for someone to use clips from Skyfall...
Nov 5, 2012 5:30 PM # 
Nixon:
Latest O video, promoting the Edinburgh University BIG Weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hq12XSA9yI

It is possible to show people properly punching a control quickly.
Nov 7, 2012 10:28 AM # 
andzs:
In Latvia one of biggest clubs "Magnets" puts some effort in promoting its yearly biggest events. Videos are quite well made.

Riga Cup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rfAvYcuq20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mIYo2t6Z5w

Klubu stafetes (Club relays)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yk_yGa1zZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxiNbvhZXk4 (english subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCUY5ffQFq0 (no subtitles)

and some videos on their weekly O-activities like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVEeD-CpXE (O-school for minors)
Nov 7, 2012 8:36 PM # 
hughmac4:
Dang, those are some nice woods in the Swiss Kids Spring video.

Who will translate this one for me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Qfl0iP2Sc

Not that it really needs to be translated ...
May 14, 2014 6:38 PM # 
gordhun:
Orienteer -ers ? Not that debate again! Talk about a throwback to the 1980's .
May 14, 2014 7:08 PM # 
jjcote:
Yeah, it's "orienteeringists".
May 15, 2014 2:12 AM # 
GuyO:
Those of us who practice engineering are engineers, not engineerers...

...or engineeringists
May 15, 2014 2:14 AM # 
hansolo:
One of my personal favorite promos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qya4hrSKYJk

And one for the OOCup 2014, also by those Swiss Kids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwtSLEhUDYU

In my opinion, age for these promos can and should vary, but the focus on the fast-pace running, pressured decision-making, and scenic footage really make the sport look appealing. Would love to see USAOrienteering create a youtube page.
May 15, 2014 3:48 AM # 
blegg:
May 15, 2014 11:10 AM # 
Cristina:
I thought it was orienteering runnerers?
May 15, 2014 2:29 PM # 
gruver:
Ahhhhhh. Slovenia.

This discussion thread is closed.