Discussion: Innov8 OROC vs X-Talon: are OROCS stiffer?
in: Orienteering; Gear & Toys;
I just got a pair of Innov8 X-Talons and I am in love and I haven't even run with them on trail or terrain yet.
The shoes have wonderful groundfeel/feedback.. but I am also looking for a 'stiffer' pair of shoes for long distance field checking/rogaining/ultralongs.
From Innov8's website, I see that the OROC shoes have a different sole than X-Talons.. but it is not clear whether the soles are actually STIFFER.
Also, there is no explanation of their "shoc zone" anywhere-- although it seems to correspond with their arrow system (denotes how much "drop" the shoes has).. which just seems redundant.
I just flexed a bunch of the shoes on the back porch. The Oroc 280 only seems slightly stiffer than the x-talon. The Oroc 340 seems very similar to the Oroc 280 so again, just slightly stiffer than the x-talon. None of these is anywhere near as stiff as the Asics 2160's we have. The VJ Falcons are certainly stiffer than the inov-8's but seem a little more flexible than the Asics. No measurements taken, just twist and flex and judgement.
The 340 has much more sole protection from rocks and such than the 212. It's a beefier shoe with more durable upper, better rand around the toe and a bit more cush. I wouldn't say it's noticeably stiffer once broken in, but provides a lot more protection on rocky trails and is my go to shoe for rugged terrain even if I don't need the spikes. I reserve the 212s for shorter xc races, sprints and O when I know the terrain isnt excessively rocky. The 340 also has a slightly higher heel to toe drop 6mm vs 4mm I think but can't say I really notice the difference.
The OROCs and X-Talon models are really racing shoes, and I wouldn't wear them for the ultra-long distance activities you mention. The Roclite 268 would be more suitable.
I just wore OROC 340's for a 12 hr rogaine and covered 73km of farmland in them. Felt OK at the time, although a bit harsh on the feet for the few road running sections. The ground in general was pretty hard and quite rocky. General feet protection was good, no blister issues at all, but the balls of my feet are still a bit bruised 3-4 days later. I don't think I'd be game to have done the rogaine in my X Talons. Have used them for a trail half marathon and lots of orienteering, and i love them, but (and I don't have tem with me here at work to check) I would think the OROCs would be a bit thicker in the sole and a bit stiffer and I reckon the rocks would have done my feet it in the X talons
It seems like I should err towards the RocLites. (They are stiffer?)
Next question would be-- Gore-Tex or no?
I would think that wool socks are enough to keep my feet warm even when wet.
Being dry, though- can keep blisters at bay.
That said, I always have a problem being hot. Even when it's 55 degrees out, so more breathable (no Gore Tex) sounds good to me!
I wore my X-talons during a 20-hour orienteering last January (featuring some snow, frozen ground and very steep terrain) with no issues beyond getting wet feet, so I wouldn't rule them out for longer races.
Hm. Just saw that Roclites are a "trail" shoe and not "off trail". Of course, that doesn't mean that they CAN'T go of trail.. but I am focusing on a shoe for ultralong/fieldchecking/8hr rogaining. Now maybe what I want is Mudrocs...
AAAAAAhahahaha. I dunno. I want all of them! :)
@cii00me9-- I could give the X-Talons a go when I field check for 2 days next weekend.. but I don't know if I want to suffer the consequences if it doesn't work out!
Goretex is overrated for off-trail, IMO - unless you've got some means of keeping your socks dry, you're going to end up with wet feet if there's any kind of wet undergrowth. And Goretex shoes don't drain very well/at all.
Easier to have good, quick-drying socks and well-drained shoes.
If I'm going to step in something, I'm going to step in something deeper than my shoes, so Goretex is not something I look for.
I've used my Roclite 295s in a six hour rogaine, all of the local o meets, the Flying Pig, and most recently a 10 hour adventure race. In that AR, my feet were soaked 20 seconds in. No blisters. I am very satisfied with their off trail traction. They do come up short of grip on wet logs, so I'm reading the OROC comments with interest.
OK! I DID IT!
I ordered Roclites. :)
Thank you ALL for your input!! It was very helpful!
Ach, I was reading this thread and thinking that you should check out the TerraFly 277s
, but I guess I am too late for this round. I love my X-Talons and my ORocs and had trouble finding a 'comfort' shoe for long stuff. I tried the RocLite 285s and found them uncomfortable and too stiff. The TerraFly has taken over as my non-orienteering shoe of choice. (No gore-tex, of course, because my feet are always steaming and I don't have any expectation that they'd ever stay dry anyway.)
Oroc 280 is dedicated racing shoe. I have a pair for ~year, covered ~166 miles. They still are quite OK but there is one issue with them. At toe Oroc's have protective rubber thingie - part of sole which is glued to shoe fabric. Idea is good but execution on mine pair is flawed. Glue definitely is not strong enough and some months ago rubber started to separate from fabric gathering misc dirt in the distance. Yesterday I brought them to the shoemaker who will sew rubber sole tip back to the fabric for ~5 bucks. Other models also have the same construction and I wonder If they also are prone to the same problem.
No. I have Mudclaw (in their 4th season), X-Talon (3rd) and Oroc 280 (2nd season). The Mudclaws have done around 50 events, the X-talon 30 and the Orocs 12 events, and all are holding up well.
not so interesting for people in the US but Lakes Runner have the Oroc 280 on special right now... http://www.lakesrunner.com/footwear-c305/shoes-c36...
Yeah, I have a pair of Oroc 280s that are approaching 2 years old, have over 530km of orienteering, and are a-okay. The construction seems pretty solid.
My oroc 340's hit 1000km this am and still going strong, though admittedly I also have a brand new pair quietly waiting in the wings...
I've had a couple pairs of Roclite 285's and found them very comfortable but the uppers not so durable and developed tears/holes and were retired at 800 & 1000km respectively. the holes developed well before retirement though. I may still get another pair for longer trail races - comfortable out to 40km at least. But not for rough terrain.
Had some goretex inov8's a few years back as I got a great deal in them, but due to the GT your feet stay wet in them if you're in wet terrain. I'd advise good socks and a shoe that has great drainage - your feet will be much happier if you let them soaked, but allow the excess to leave just as quickly. The running motion will tend to wring out the socks as long as the water has someplace to go.
@cmorse, I anticipate that the sythetic nylon on the Roclites will not be as durable as the TPU on the Orocs-- but the tipping point was that I'd rather run on trail for long stretches on the Roclite sole. Also, they should more durable than generic running shoes like my Asics trail runners that look like a dog has got to them, but really I've only been orienteering. :)
That's what so exciting to me about Inov8! So many options, but they're easy to understand permutations: X sole, X amount of drop, X material upper. I've seen other companies try to offer a lot of variety, but the differences become much foggier.
I just wish they'd add "stiffness" as another measurable factor. After reading this forum and examining my own shoes, I decided my best bet was to just go with a 9mm drop shoe.
My Orocs 280 got treatment... https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cdLJJcENOtOE...
I hope they will last till next season..
@andzs: Interesting! I wonder if Inov8 would consider pre-emptively stiching their toes..
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