Discussion: Recommend a laptop/tablet for exclusive mapping use?

I've got a Mac- so I can't run Purple Pen, OCAD or any of the awesome orienteering-related software it seems. I could install software that "mimics Windows" on my Mac, but I already max out my Macbook Pro with tons of video footage as it is.

Can you recommend a laptop or tablet that is:
-less than $1000 (hopefully closer to $500)
-lightweight enough to be easily portable
-rugged enough to take into the field
-& of course, can run PPen, OCAD, etc with no problem.

I'd rather have it be light than rugged if that's a deciding factor.

Thanks!

iPad 4G with Greg Walker's GhettoCAD. This doesn't solve the Purple Pen and OCAD issue, but I think it's probably the best portable mapping tool.... and you'll have an IPad, too.

Can I install "Windows" on top of an iPad?

iPad would also be awesome for on-the-scene blogging & video updates!

Just about to say the same - greg's AP name is biggins. You'd have to contact him with an iPad's Device ID to try it out - so find a friend with an iPad!

Also, saw your website on that 'novice question' thread. Great work, keep it up!

Can I install "Windows" on top of an iPad?

No, but you can throw your iPad out the window, after which it still might be more useful than attempting to run Windows on it.

I just bought a Fujitsu Q550 tablet on ebay with the idea of using it for field checking. They run windows 7 professional and you should be able to snag one for $450-$500 (or less), even though the retail is closer to $800-$900. With that said, I haven't put OCAD on it yet and haven't tried field checking with it yet but that is my intention. They do come with a 2 cell or a 4 cell battery and they claim 8-10 hours of use with the 4 cell though it's probably less if the screen has to be turned up bright. Also, they come with 30 GB or 62 GB hard drives. Here's a link to one selling now that I'm guessing will go for less than $500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150828573571?ssPageName=ST...

For fieldwork: iPad + GhettoCAD. You'll want the iPad with GPS (not on the base model). The cheapest new iPad option is $629, with the previous model at $529. The phone has wireless capability, too, but you can skip that. If you need it to be rugged, just get one of the gazillion iPad cases. GhettoCAD is free, so get with Greg Walker. He likes mountain biking, too, so you guys will be best buds.

For mapping on a Mac: There's a third alternative to either running Windows on a Mac, or buying a separate Windows machine. Download Inkscape for Mac (freeware vector graphic design software... I've been using it for years), and then download the free O-Scape plugin. This should work for a Mac. Not only will this work on a Mac, but it's also free, which OCAD is not.

I haven't yet played with O-Scape, but I probably will this summer when I start experimenting with some new maps. One thing I don't know about O-Scape is if it plays well with OCAD. If I save a file in O-Scape, can I send it to someone with OCAD?

Purple Pen & Catching Features: Won't work on a Mac. Both shouldn't take up too much computing power, so getting a entry-level or used PC should suffice for this.

Move your video footage off your Mac and install parallels to run Windows. Add more ram if you need to. Works pretty well.

Interesting thread. I have used OCAD-6 on Linux with the help of Wine and wine-tricks. Would this technique work on a Mac?

I run OCAD under Parallels and it works surprisingly well on a macbook pro.

I tried ocad through parallels on an iMac, but it's not the same. Too used to what I've used for too long. Hoping GC will work.

How well do tablet interfaces work for drafting in OCAD? I remain skeptical that they have enough fine control, but I am hoping to have my mind changed!

I store some video footage on an external drive as it is, but when I'm working on a video project- which is nearly all the time- I need to have SOME footage on my Mac. I'd rather leave my Mac designated as a video editing computer.

I'm leaning towards buying a small $500 laptop for mapping purposes only.

Now, which one? :)

But then I try to spend as little time drafting in OCAD as possible, just using it to bring together multiple layers of stuff coming from other sources. So my usage may not be typical.

So far, I'm very happy with my Lenovo E220s, which I got for around $650.

Key when buying a windows 7 laptop. Getting the latest processor is not such a big deal, but don't skimp on the ram (4GB minimum). When I open big OCAD files, I still notice a screen refresh lag. This might be a graphics card thing, or it might just be an OCAD thing. If you get serious about mapping in the NW, you'll probably want to process some lidar datasets eventually, so you'll might appreciate having the 64-bit OS (although, on second thought, that probably doesn't matter for a 4GB laptop). (Note, I'm not really an expert on the computer front)

*I can't recall if I have screen refresh issues on OCAD with my desktop beast, and I can't check until it finishes a heavy data-processing job.

Hey Socks - thanks for the Inkscape tip. I was thinking of downloading it recently anyway, but that is a pretty slick program! I think OCAD just got bumped as my preferred graphics design tool.

Coming from ~20 years of OCAD use, there seem to be many extra wrist/finger actions needed to accomplish similar things in Inkscape to what I do in OCAD, but that's for map editing—getting the points and curve points to be exactly where you want them to be. For general graphics design, perhaps Inkscape wins out on capabilities.

Has anyone had any real success using OCAD on a tablet? The one time I tried it I ran into problems drawing curves because OCAD is designed to respond to a click and then drag which and I wasn't able to recreate the click and drag on the touch screen.

How well do tablet interfaces work for drafting in OCAD? I remain skeptical that they have enough fine control, but I am hoping to have my mind changed!

Quoting http://o-wiki.net/index.php?title=Mapping_with_GPS since it seems relevant:

"Most phones/tablets has regular capacitive screen these days, nice for web browsing but not that at all for precise map drawing, any regular resistive screen would do better." Jarkko Ryyppö [1]

http://www.kartringen.se/kartringen2011-01.pdf
newsletter (from last year) from Swedish mappers organisation testing two tablets for outdoor use with OCAD 10.

you can cut and paste text into an online translator to gewt the general idea - I can help translate more accurately if you need

I've been using an iPad + Ghettocad for a bit over a year now, and I like it a lot. Much preferable to mylar and pencils, and to the netbook + OCAD I tried in the field for about a year.

I find no difficulties with the capacitive screen. I find a stylus helps, but isn't absolutely necessary (Griffin stylus, about $10, is my favorite). Greg has GC set up so that when you draw, a magnifying glass pops up allowing you to do detailed and accurate drafting in spite of the limitations of the screen. After some experience with GC, I now do almost all drafting using GC, with very little need to do any touch up work with OCAD.

What is the accuracy of the GPS built in in the iPad?
Is it comparable with Garmin GPS devices?
Is there also a monitoring of the expected accuracy?

So.. how much can GhettoCad do? Can one map to high quality an area start to finish, entirely on GhettoCad?

Is it an abbreviated version of OCAD or is it a different (competing) program entirely? Are files are not cross-compatible?

I've never used either, so excuse my ignorance of how they work.

Thanks!

Two years old now... but here's something on GhettoCAD:
http://okansas.blogspot.com/2010/08/downtown-sprin...

In terms of whether one can do a high quality map start to finish with GC, my experience is yes. Over the past year I've done almost all drafting on GC. E.g., for a recent sprint map I used OCAD only to fill in some area features such as paved areas. Otherwise all drafting was done in GC. Last fall for a traditional map in a forested area, I think I used OCAD only for the final layout such as a border and legend, and course setting.

Files transfer seamlessly between GC and OCAD, so that's no problem.

GC is not a commercial program--Greg is providing GC at no cost--so we can't bug him about technical support and the like. But if those using GC and others interested in using it want, it would be easy enough to set up a users group to discuss issues, tips, support, etc.

For amee's question about the iPad's GPS accuracy: I find it ok, but not as good as other GPS devices. It's somewhat of a side issue to this thread, but I'd be curious to know if others have had the same experience. As far as I can tell the iPad uses a roughly equivalent GPS chipset, so there should not be much of a difference. But my iPad seems consistently rougher than my other GPS devices in terms of GPS accuracy.

The GPS on my iPhone 4 seems really accurate. It knows which parking spot I'm in when I'm sitting in the car, for example. Would the iPhone & iPad GPS chips be much different?

Speaking of Apple products and maps, is anyone looking forward to whatever Apple has in store with its own maps, likely to be announced next week?

From personal experience, using the Runkeeper App on the iPhone4, the GPS is unreliable at best. More often than not, whilst out walking around the suburbs, the GPS will throw in one or more unaccountable data points, as far away as 5km. It seems to do so most often just after the start, so I'll walk about 200m checking the GPS trace and if I notice the error, I'll reset it. 2711 and I have noticed it on other Apps as well, so we believe it's not just the Runkeeper App.

At admitted risk of stirring up some controversy, I think that if you can wait 4 - 6 months, you should wait for the slew of tablets to be released running Windows 8. And OCAD is already known to run on it.

greg_l, I like that idea a LOT!

Except the waiting part. haha.

There are several options for mapping with Windows Mobile/PocketPC/Smartphones too:

http://www.momap.se/

http://www.systemasmund.com/

Regardless of what you're using, a bluetooth GPS worn on your head is definitely recommended.

I have two points of comment.
I saw a brief demonstration of the Asmund System when I was at the O'Ringen Academy a few years ago. Very impressive. What I like best about it over a program running on a laptop or tablet is the durability of the hardware. It is a very compact unit, fitting in the palm of one's hand. I can't imagine walking through our forests, stunbling over rocks and logs carrying an open laptop, same with a tablet.
Also I've had indifferent results recording detail with my Garmin 405. I think one of the problems may be that it only records a point every four seconds, another would be the shielding effect of my body, trees, etc. It is most useful in measuring distance the way a map records it - -in two dimensions. But agree with Eriol - bluetooth your head!!!

Yow! 2000 Eur is pricey for a dedicated mapping unit. Might be OK if you're a professional mapper.

Can you change the recording intervals on the Garmins?

Gordon, I can walk at 1.5m/s if I really try but mapping is always less than 1m/s. So 4 seconds is under 4m which is within the variability of the consumer-level GPS's that most of us use. I think Jagge has done some repeatability experiments with different devices, but I don't expect better than 10m.

I was probably expecting too much of my Garmin 405. Mapping in SW Florida I was trying to trace the boundaries of palmetto thickets and clearings from 10 to about 50 M across. I could get the location right but not the accurate boundaries. That still took pacing and bearings. It didn't seem to improve accuracy by walking more slowly.

Yes, sticker shock knocked me out of the Asmund market, too. You can buy a lot of mylar and pencils for 2000 EUR.
But one point I think they make is that you are paying for a durable unit with a much longer 'lifetime' than the alternatives.

With GC and gmap background, you could zoom in and draw the outline of the palmetto with no problem. And once you have the overall location set, you could do much of it from the shade of your porch. Then go out in the field to confirm it.