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Discussion: Flying Pig / Eastern States Interscholastic Champs

in: OCIN Flying Pig XVI (Mar 30 – Apr 1, 2012 - Union, KY, US)

Dec 22, 2011 4:35 AM # 
We have a GREAT deal for event headquarters. The very nice folks at Hyatt Place - Cincinnati Airport have given us a fantastic deal of $79 per night for all rooms. For school teams and families, this will be especially nice because ALL rooms comfortably and legally sleep 6. And the rate includes a large hot breakfast, the largest swimming pool of any property we visited, free wi-fi throughout, free airport shuttle, late Sunday checkout, and much more! This hotel is convenient to all event sites.

Call 1-888-492-8847 and mention that you are a part the OCIN-Flying Pig or make your room reservation online

Event dates will be Friday, March 30, 2012 (afternoon middle distance race), Saturday, March 31 (sprint and middle), and Sunday, April 1 (morning middle distance on new map). You should be able to get the special rate at least one day each side of the events, but let me know if you have any problems.

All 4 events will be "A" sanctioned races, with a full range of courses for all ages and abilities. The Eastern States Interscholastics will include all 4 races, with the best 3 counting for individual and team awards. ESIS eligible states include ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX and everything east (the exact opposite of how "Western States Championships" have been defined for many years.)
Dec 22, 2011 3:10 PM # 
Attention juniors: What are your suggestions for some free-time activities?

A couple times we have taken groups to a Cincinnati Reds game, but the regular baseball season will not have started.

One year we rented a lazer-tag place. That's a possibility. A lot of kids went, but I never heard much feedback.

Newport Aquarium is fantastic - sharks, rays, and all sorts of other sea life, but a bit pricey.

What about a movie night? If there is enough interest, we could probably get a theatre to ourselves. A suggestion is "The Hunger Games" movie which opens on March 23, the week before the Pig.

Let me know if you like any of these ideas or have any other suggestions.
Dec 26, 2011 3:23 AM # 
The Event Information page is now open. You will also find preliminary event details, location map, and links to several lodging specials.

Online registration will be available, but we are still finalizing venue and pricing for the event dinner and for evening junior activities. Juniors (and parents) please let us know if you have any suggestions.
Dec 28, 2011 12:03 AM # 
Why 3 Middle distances races, but no Long?
Dec 28, 2011 3:43 AM # 
Why not?
Dec 28, 2011 6:43 AM # 
Hopefully Mike will give a better answer, but basically, we have 3 maps in Kentucky. We use 2 of them currently, and 1 is brand new. None of them are really big enough for a proper Long. Since it is the 16th Flying Pig, and 16 is 2^4, I proposed a Farsta, which is a Flying Pig tradition we have gotten away from, but the mass start means it can't be ranked. It's a tough decision.
Dec 28, 2011 1:56 PM # 
As cedarcreek said, the main issue is that none of the Northern Kentucky parks are large enough for a proper long. We had planned to squeeze one in, but it would not have any really long legs and would be a lot of back and forth. It would have been long in name and distance only, but not in style.

Because we are doing a regional interscholastic championship and it had already been publicized that we would have 4 events that would count for JWOC rankings, we decided not to have a mass start such as a farsta. There is definitely a tradeoff between being able to get 4 ranking events (and a national ranking) in a single weekend, or having one of the events be a mass start format.

We actually have a 4th Northern Kentucky map, a scout camp, which could probably accomodate a long, but it would be very hilly and most importantly is bisected by a large creek with no bridges. While we can usually safely plan to cross the creek for late summer (dry season) events, during spring it would certainly be a wet crossing, and is uncrossable more often than not.
Dec 28, 2011 3:05 PM # 
Ranked events are the real draw. Which is unfortunate, but that's how the system has been rigged. Every event that you put on that is not a ranked event means you earn less than you otherwise could have for the work that you put in. Orienteering USA doesn't think it's a concern, but the effect of this is to shoehorn development into very rigid boundaries, which boundaries may not work well for the big picture. There have been efforts to set up parallel ranking systems for events that aren't (or weren't) hardwritten into USOF Rules, most notably the Sprint Series, but they all fizzled. Maybe it's time to think a bit about the power of tools at the organization's disposal, and about how it wishes to use them.

Sacrilegiously, what's the hurt to the ranking system from including one or a small number of mass started events? We already include Sprints, and there's ample data they underrank the top people and overrank those in the 60s.
Dec 28, 2011 4:17 PM # 
Multiple Middle races sounds like a fine idea. People who like that race format (and there seem to be quite a few) should love it. Makes more sense than the 100m/5k/marathon weekend, right?

The purported problem with ranking mass-start events is that people who have no idea how to navigate can purportedly show up and just follow their way around the course. That would be "unfair". This attitude is one of the central tenets of the purists. It's often easy to recognize purists due to their advanced age and rotundity.
Jan 6, 2012 10:12 PM # 
We are working on extra evening activities for the Flying Pig. Details are not final yet, but current plans are:
Friday Evening - group booking for The Hunger Games movie
Saturday Evening - speaker about the history and fossils of Big Bone Lick State Park, the birthplace of modern Paleontology
More details will show up on the website soon. If you have ideas for any other activities, let us know!
Jan 7, 2012 1:30 AM # 
The Hunger Games on IMDb (Internet Movie Database)
Jan 9, 2012 12:19 AM # 
matzah ball:
Mike, nothing personal, but I don't like staying in hotels. (Give me a few years, I'm sure I'll come around some day). Is there a suitable harmonious resonance between campgrounds and event venues available?
Jan 9, 2012 5:30 AM # 
The campground at Big Bone Lick SP is probably best. On the Sunday map. Probably about 15 mile bike ride with some hills to each of the other two sites. I don't think there are too many other camping choices. Nothing in the Fri or Sat parks.

We do have a couple club members with property midway between the venues. I will ask around and maybe we can work something that way.
Jan 9, 2012 6:01 PM # 
matzah ball:
15 miles seems doable. Maybe a little on the long side to do just before a race, so probably want to schedule some extra time to stretch out and jog. Sounds good, thanks.
Jan 11, 2012 11:03 PM # 
We have confirmed and are pleased to announce that our speaker after dinner on Saturday will be Natural Historian Dr. Stanley Hedeen, author of Big Bone Lick: Cradle of American Paleontology. A dynamic speaker, he should provide an interesting presentation about the natural history of the area to be used for the next day's race.
Feb 18, 2012 4:14 AM # 
Registration has been open for a week, and Entries are coming in. The Location Map has been updated with dinner and training locations. And a reminder that OCIN is giving away up to $3000 in travel grants to help the winning Eastern States teams travel to the US Interscholastic Cahmpionships 3 weeks later. See the Event Information page for details.
Feb 19, 2012 3:50 AM # 
aquarium sounds like a lot of fun
Feb 20, 2012 6:14 PM # 
Nate, we are working with Northern KY Convention and Visitors Bureau. There will be information about the Newport Aquarium in the event packets and possibly a discount coupon.
Feb 20, 2012 9:59 PM # 
Free Willie! Now!
Feb 20, 2012 10:17 PM # 
Tomorrow would be ok too.

This discussion thread is closed.