Discussion: The Danish Proposal

As introduced by Orienteering USA Prez at the Board meeting in Gilroy on 16 April 2011. (This is all I know! I haven't seen anything in writing.)

• Denmark and the U.S. will jointly apply for WOC 2017 and 2018.


• U.S. staff will be trained at the Danish WOC in 2017, and will help out.


• Danish staff will help U.S. orienteers prepare for WOC 2018, and help at the event.

April Fool's Day was a long time ago. Did this get caught in the ether for a while?

Just to clarify. Denmark has contacted us with a proposal to jointly host two WOCs, one in Denmark, one in the US. I let the Board know, so we could begin discussing our response. Nothing else has happened.

It seems to me that if another US WOC is ever going to happen this may be the final opportunity. But a key would be drumming up widespread support from the US O community. There are a lot of us who fear that we could not pull off a high class WOC without embarrasing ourselves and exhausting our volunteer resources. The prospect of having Danish mentors could change some minds.

this may be the final opportunity.

Sounds a bit ominous.

What's in it for the Danish?

And why did they choose the US, instead of, say, Canada, Australia, or China?

China, that I can't answer. Others, easy. China aside, the U.S. still has the largest economy, and most importantly, media that is the most influential worldwide. The key for getting orienteering into the Olympics, or at least getting more recognition for it, is getting the sport past U.S. media acceptance—and as one of the results, getting it acknowledged and sponsored by multinationals, most of which are headquartered in the U.S. Being sponsored by Google Sweden just isn't the same thing as being sponsored by Google; being on the front page of Helsingin Sanomat is far inferior to being anywhere in the NY Times. If there is no recognition or acceptance in the U.S., there will not be inroads into the Olympic movement, nor significant sponsor funding.

For what it's worth, I will help out wherever I am best suited if WOC 2018 is stateside. I think it's a super exciting prospect.

The words of someone who was ten years old in 1993...

Don't you mean "the U.S aside, China has..."?

I don’t think you meant to suggest that China has already supplanted the US economy, but just wanted to clarify.

Anyway… I believe the CMAS World Championships were held in the US in the not too distant past. Can anyone tell me when? How did that enhance the sport and/or participation in the US?

Is this Danish proposal consistent with the OUSA strategic plan? Did it originate from within OUSA? If so, it seems like a bit of a Hail Mary than a carefully considered strategic move.

Dunno about the strategic plan bit, but this definitely originated with the Danes, as Clare wrote above.

I think it's a super exciting prospect.

Agreed. This is exciting.

The key for getting orienteering into the Olympics, or at least getting more recognition for it, is getting the sport past U.S. media acceptance.

Here's a chicken and egg question for you.... do we want orienteering in the Olympics because it will bring media acceptance? Or do we want media acceptance so that we can get in the Olympics? (Or is it something else?)

I'm not convinced that you need the Olympic caché to get media attention. Take the latest Cricket World Cup for example. Here's a sport that's not in the Olympics. The international body only has 10 full member nations, which does not include the United States (the US is an "associate" member). And their recent World Cup was not staged in the US.

However, despite all of that, there was significant coverage of this event on ESPN.com (I don't follow cricket at all, but there was enough front page coverage on ESPN.com that I took notice during March Madness). Why did ESPN decide to cover Cricket?

I'm not comparing Cricket to Orienteering, it's just that we may want to reconsider our approach to reaching the promised land of media acceptance and/or Olympics. Maybe we need to host another WOC. Maybe we don't.

How does the Danish proposal fit into this? What is their motivation? If media exposure and corporate backing is what they want, how can we guarantee that we can deliver? We have terrain, maps, and skilled people. But what I don't see is a lot of media/PR savvy, which is what you really need to make this work.

ESPN may have an interest in cricket because millions of other people in just one country do, too.

But, India has 20 x of the population of Scandinavia.

And Scandinavia has more than 20 x the orienteers that the US does.

Ceteris paribus, the numbers don't make sense.

ESPN also own probably the main cricket website, ESPNCricinfo.com, so they also have the coverage available to them basically for free.

And the amount of money in cricket at the moment is staggering. Global broadcast rights for the Indian Premier League went for $1.93 billion for a ten-year contract. (That's around half as much as Major League Baseball, about the same as the NHL.) Think orienteering is in that ballpark?

But yes, this is a sidetrack, and irrelevant to the main proposal this thread is about.

The only chance for a little fish not to get eaten is to join a larger swarm. Sharks can survive independently.

The name of this thread also sounds like a indie movie title.

Or something to order off the menu for breakfast.

Cricket spectators outnumber cricket participants.

Nice JJ. J-man's numbers should be more 50 than 20...

Ok, so I found a competitive sport that:

a) is not in the Olympics
b) is shown regularly on ESPN
c) has significantly more participants than viewers

What is it?

Poker?

Nope.

Think more sporty... than poker.

Driving cars?

Most of us daily drivers aren't competitive about it.

This isn't a trick question, either.

Golf is in as of 2016, or I would have said that. Bowling? Billiards? Karate?

I didn't look up the numbers, but I would guess that more people watch golf on TV in a given year than play it.

The answer I was looking for is bowling. It's the 5th most popular sport to play in the US (1st amongst competitive ones... "recreational walking" is #1 overall). 66 million of us play at least once annually, and it has around 20 million TV non-unique viewers per year.

Getting orienteering onto US TV should be a more important goal than getting orienteering into the Olympics. I've often thought that the best way to have a successful high profile sprint race in the US or Canada would be to enter into a contract with the people that organize the post finance cup in Switzerland. ie., they know how to host big race and how to attract sponsors. So bring them in and expose to the potentially bigger money and opportunities in the US market.

With GPS and head cams and TV controls, etc. you could make some very attractive 'made for TV' 22 minute summaries of big orienteering races that could be be bought or linked to a smaller TV network. From that the sponsors will follow.

I would think that there is sufficient expertise in the orienteering World to make that happen and perhaps that is what the Danish proposal is all about. If is is then well done!

Zillions of people watch those cricket matches, for sure. But I'll bet almost all of the spectators are players, or have been players at some time in their lives. My dream is to have a similar massive group of "casual" orienteers - non-addicts who have played it enough to enjoy and appreciate watching the very best. Because I agree with hammer - orienteering can be great for tv.

Bowling is a sport?

To confirm AZ's cricket comments. Many more people watch cricket than play cricket formally in Australia. But I would guess nearly every Australian male has played cricket at some stage. It might not have been formal league cricket, but certainly backyard cricket. Backyard cricket has a hallowed status in this country. When we play, we play to impress, not just to fill in time. If you can send down a good leg break, you will gain respect. It would be the same in any cricketing country. My own best experience was living in Camp 4 at Yosemite for a month. Every Sunday the cricketing nations put climbing aside and held a test match between Australia and the rest of the world. We bowled, batted, fielded, drank beer, sledged each other and afterwards awarded Man of the Match. One week it was won by a US baseball fanatic who knew how to take the speccy (spectacular) catch.
You should take backyard cricket seriously, as long as you never take it too seriously. Here are some kiwis taking a proper attitude to the pastime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02b_xMIi3vg
So what is the orienteering equivalent?

Virtually all people who watch an orienteering race have orienteered at some point as well (most of them pretty seriously), but it's a very rare orienteering event (even in Scandinavia, AFAIK) that has more spectators than participants (likewise for bowling). Cricket has stands for spectators to sit in. Even a middle-school softball game or kids' soccer match in the US typically has more people watching than playing.

But luge usually has more people competing than participating, unless it's the World Champs, World Cup, or the Olympics.

Stop comparing the sport to the majors. It's a niche sport and always will remain one. Whether it's a small niche or a large niche hinges almost singularly on the Olympics.

In Portugal I'm sure there are more tv spectators than participants... same for the o-segments on the news in the Nordic countries.

The goal should be more sports news, interviews and gossip weekly or fortnightly, like they do in Portugal, rather than annual big race cameras-in-the-woods type stuff. Then you'd only need one or two cameras and a small production crew.

Bowling is a sport?

Apparently a dying sport. An article in yesterday's NYTimes reflected the realities of the bowling industry today.

...a truth about the state of bowling...boutique alleys with bars and bands in popular locations are popping up, and the less flashy centers that feel like suburban oases are being phased out...

Would orienteering benefit from "boutique" sprints with "bars and bands...?"

What, you don't already have Disco-Bowling everywhere in the US? As someone on Swedish radio put it: "Bowling, the only sport where you add Disco and it gets better."

I was under the impression that it wasn't possible to bowl unless it was a disco bowling night.

One advantage that bowling has from a TV perspective is that it's incredibly easy to film, probably among the easiest, in fact.

Isn't the GPS tracking displayed on a map better than having cameras in the woods? I can almost see a TV broadcast showng the display map with sports commentators pointing out mistakes, new routes, etc. as it airs to---milllions?

And with respect to spectators, doesn't that include all of us watching on-line? I don't know what the numbers are but it's got to be many times the number of participants.

Although I completely respect all of you who can sit enthralled in front of your computer screens for hours, watching little colored dots moving on a map, I will freely admit that this holds little interest for me. And if I, as a serious orienteer, feel this way, I'll bet that 99.99% of the potential TV audience agrees with me.

Until we get real-time head cams along with the GPS tracking, I don't think there is any hope of reaching a mass TV audience.

And I thought the answer to Pink Sock's question was bass fishing. I'm certain its true of all three points, tho I'll admit I'm not enough of an expert to be sure of a).

I can only think on one sport that would be more preposterous to watch on TV than people catching fish, so nevermind. At least with bass fishing, you can see the action, and the average viewer at least understands the goals and metrics of success.

Bass fishing also has the profile sponsors like -- boats/motors, expensive gear, trips, and so forth. If you don't have TV worthy sponsor gear, you don't have TV worthy product, its that simple.

Exactly. Equipment, and lots of it, and you, too, can be a better bass fisherman. Or skier, or golfer, etc...

Or, it can be a sport practiced by millions.

But, if you are a sport practiced by few... and a sport which would be denuded or destroyed by more and better equipment, it is a bit of a non-starter.

hammer and AZ
Lets bring WOC to Canada!!
doesnt look like the americans want to.......

You know D-Man I was going to say the exact same thing earlier today!

Hey Denmark! Lets put our differences about Hans Island aside and bid for WOC in back-to-back years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

Have at it. It's your turn anyway. How about a Hans Island sprint final?

I think Canada would be a fine place for a WOC. We'll even help out.

JJ, if you look at Hans Island carefully in Google Maps, you will see it's not really an island at all, but rather a giant, somewhat nibbled oatmeal cookie that has been crudely disguised to be made to appear to be an island. It wouldn't have fooled the Soviets back in the good old days, and those Quaker Oats shouldn't fool anyone today either. Probably the map makers were banking on nobody noticing, what with all the hullabaloo over the pending royal wedding.

I would like it if most people in the US knew what orienteering was, so that when we go to a park ranger and say that we want to orienteer in their park, we didn't have to define the word. So that when someone sees a control flag, their first thought isn't to pick it up as litter. I don't care if they never get off the trails, as long as they don't yell at me when I do.

Although I completely respect all of you who can sit enthralled in front of your computer screens for hours, watching little colored dots moving on a map, I will freely admit that this holds little interest for me. And if I, as a serious orienteer, feel this way, I'll bet that 99.99% of the potential TV audience agrees with me.

While I would have guessed the same, I found it interesting to watch some of the Ski-WOC races last month with my 10-year-old twins. They were captivated watching the colored dots moving around the map and not nearly as interested in the actual camera shots of skiers. Granted the camera work did leave plenty of room for improvement. Now, whether or not 99.99% of potential TV audiences bear any resemblance to my kids...

and a sport which would be denuded or destroyed by more and better equipment

If this is alluding to GPS, I fail to note how trail runs are being destroyed by faster ATVs.

Probably not the best analogy, Vlad. It may be a regional thing but at least in some areas ATV ownership is viewed as a license to trespass. We have many areas where ATV use is seriously destroying trails and in many cases making them really lousy for running on. Sorry, hot button.

I hope these aren't trail runners in them ATVs...

I would hope so, too. But frankly it's surprising what a cross-section of otherwise-normal people you discover when you force them to unmask.

There is more discussion of this possibility now on the O-USA website at
http://orienteeringusa.org/news/2011/general/propo...

This is still the information gathering phase. I, for one, have no fixed opinion on whether it is a good or bad idea. I like it in theory but wonder about it in practice.

Perhaps, we should start a conversation. It would start with where and how. It needs to be near a major airport with appropriate lodging. Everything else is up in the air.

I could probably be convinced to stick around and help out in some way or other for a Canadian WOC. I think it would be awesome!

2.5 years ago we committed to a 3+ year paid Executive Director, and 1.5 years ago we committed to an extremely ambitious 5-year Strategic Plan (SP) that the ED put together. The SP effort is seriously under-funded and under-staffed and is in danger of not reaching most of its goals while draining the federation of all of its financial reserves. Do we really believe we can spare the massive resources required to host a WOC right now? Everyone, and I mean *everyone*, in the federation should be focused like a laser on execution of the SP that we all bought into 1.5 years ago. We can't keep going off willy-nilly onto tangents just because they sound cool. We shouldn't even be talking about hosting a WOC until 2015. At that time we can assess our progress on the 5-year plan and see what we've accomplished. That may give us some hints as to our fitness for taking on such a massive undertaking as hosting a WOC. If we can't stay the course on the SP, how can we expect to stay the course on a WOC bid? Tell the Danes thank you for the generous offer, but we are over-committed at the moment. We'd be willing to re-consider such an arrangement in 2015.

I would agree with Eddie if there were only one "we". But Orienteering USA and its clubs need not be the only driving force behind a WOC. Orienteering USA's volunteers could handle the technical aspects of the event, whereas the stuff "that nobody really wants to do" and that tends to burn out people could be outsourced to (a) contractor(s).

There are plenty of parties from which these contractors can originate. CVBs/Chambers of Commerce have powers to mobilize people in the community if the community is on board with a project. There are many of us in the orienteering community who will gladly do things for half-decent money that we won't do otherwise. Then there are the Danes (and the Canadians?). Last, there are professional event organizers who in this economy may be begging for extra business.

With this, I'd hold off on the negative until/unless it's absolutely clear that no interested contractor exists, or that there's no way the finances would work out.

*If* we had bags of money we could pay people to do these jobs. 2 years of effort by the ED towards raising money for the federation has been essentially fruitless. I'm not prepared to start down yet another path with only the hope of raising some funding. If there was some historical precedent...maybe by 2015 we'll have it. I'm not holding my breath. Without money from LLF we wouldn't even be able to pay our own ED, and its looking like we won't be able to beyond this third year.

Certainly the help from the Danes, but remember the proposal was for two shared WOCs. Any help from the Danes would be paid back in-kind, meaning our level of effort is still one full WOC each. Maybe not 50/50, but still in proportion to capacity.

Without lots of money there is only one "we."

If we assume that we somehow have the funding for WOC, I think the estimate was $800,000, then it might be interesting to consider what ELSE we could do with the money. Orienteering in the North America is growing, but it's still quite small. Most clubs put on A-Meets and local meets, but the sport is still largely unheard of.

However, if USOF has $800,000 to spend, why can't we use that money to promote the sport within the U.S. and Canada. As it is, we hardly have the man power to host a WOC, and there is only a small group of rising juniors who have are responisble for sustaining orienteering in upcoming years. Wouldn't it be wise to bring more people, and therefore resources, into the sport, and then host WOC sometime down the road? If there's $800,000 to spend, I think we should spend it one something that WILL further the sport, and not potentially destroy it. This isn't even a question in my mind.

A valid point in general terms, but it's not like OUSA will have the seed money on hand - it will have to be raised from donations, sponsors, loans, etc., with the specific goal of hosting WOC. It's not like the money's there to spend on something else. If it were we'd likely already be spending it...

The WOC is a promotion vehicle, perhaps the best promotion vehicle money and labor can buy.

2 years of effort by the ED towards raising money for the federation has been essentially fruitless

Please look at the 2011 numbers. (Donations + sponsorship) > (ED comp).

That's not completely correct. Not all of the 2011 donations are unrestricted.

This is all meaningless unless a government / USA Olympic body grant in excess of $500K is secured within one year. WOC is always about losing money. WMOC may be another story where OUSA may raise some funds due to much larger crowd attending. End of story.

So here's the thing. As you may know, not one but two U.S. orienteering clubs/organizations bid for the World Rogaining Champs in 2014. It's not a fair comparison with the WOC, but I'll make it anyway. The event scale is about 1000 people, the budget is about $150k. The organization that ended up getting the event has about 20 volunteers and staff.

If a 20-person organization can pull off a $150k event with 3 years lead time, why can't a 1400-person organization pull off a $800k event with 7 years lead time? Sure the 20-person org will need help... but help has just been offered to Orienteering USA by the Danes, and there are other reservoirs to draw upon that I mentioned earlier.

Every successful international event I have attended in Europe has had the following:

1. A CEO and supporting executive board with a track record of holding successful international orienteering events.

2. A city or metropolitan area that is close to great O terrain and that is eager to strongly support and promote the event.

Where do we find these in the US?

One place that just came to mind is Detroit. Very nice technical terrain in the vicinity and an area that may welcome an economic boost. It's close to Canada so help could be drawn from our Canadian friends.

And Eminem can do the WOC theme song. That would be something.

Tundra...

Not that I wish to impugn or doubt their wherewithal, but how can you say that "[A] 20-person organization can pull off a $150k event with 3 years lead time."

Come on. Let's revisit these claims three years hence.

What other resevoirs are there to draw upon? No one in the orienteering or the for-profit orienteering community has come close to demonstrating the wherewithal to make something of this scale happen; no one in the outside sporting/or event community that has demonstrated the wherewithal to make something like this happen has indicated any interest whatsoever in orienteering.

And, not to harp on this, but please help me understand how WOC 93 did anything to increase participation in orienteering. If a tree falls in the forest...

Clem, how can you say that the orienteering community hasn't come close if this very community has held a WOC and a VWC? The WOC is now bigger than 25 years ago... about the same size as a WMOC/VWC!

WOC 93 didn't increase participation because it wasn't structured as a promotion vehicle, it didn't draw on the community, sponsor relations were on the back burner of a single person working on a bunch of things, the O-Fest was almost an afterthought, and people were burned out on the technical tasks. There's a way to do things differently. In this neck of the woods, backyard barbecues get better sponsorship than orienteering events... time to learn from the barbecue people. If you get several thousand of people together, there's value. Someone can package and sell this value. It won't be Orienteering USA, but it can and should get stuff in return.

And the de-facto CEO of the Ukrainian WOC was from outside Ukraine. Not that that particular WOC didn't have problems, but it certainly wasn't a disaster. If a 2.5th-world nation can pull something like this off...

Come on. Let's revisit these claims three years hence.

Peak Assurance successfully held the 2009 Primal Quest with a similar budget. (My best guess is in the high 5 digits, which is similar.)

What other resevoirs are there to draw upon? [...] no one in the outside [...] community that has demonstrated the wherewithal [...] has indicated any interest whatsoever in orienteering.

And has anyone in the orienteering community ever approached or asked these successful people?

Moreover, there's clearly talent in the orienteering community. It's just not exactly organized towards the purposes that Orienteering USA may proclaim to have. Look at this and this... these people are on AP... and then consider an average A meet. Heck, consider a really well sponsored A meet. Draw your own conclusions.

"Perhaps, we should start a conversation. It would start with where and how"

I would like to suggest New Hampshire. There is a great area at Dartmouth College that was used a number of years ago. It needs a new map with a lidar base but the terrain is worthy of a World Champs. Other areas would be needed for sure for the 7 events but Pawtuckaway isn't that far away and there are other good areas in the vacinity too.

The Tuck business school at Dartmouth uses Orienteering as a team building exercise. Maybe a connection can be made with them to get volunteers since it would be a great way for them to maybe make some foreign contacts.

@carlch: I remember 2 A-days near Dartmouth, in August 2003, on totally different areas. To which were you referring?

The ideas that are coming out here are great. As I said, we are in an information gathering stage to get ideas and feelings as to what is and isn't possible. Thank you all for keeping this thread going. The ideas that have been recently posted also complement the ones at the start of this thread that were added in April.

@ guyO---Burnt Mountain. The area by the new medical center.

Vladimir--

I am not suggesting that this orienteering community cannot host a WOC. Obviously it has. But, you were the one that suggested that "Orienteering USA and its clubs need not be the only driving force behind a WOC"--intimating that OUSA can just provide leadership and direction, without the wholesale mobilization of all resources required last time this happened.

I don't think the US would have won WWII if FDR just gave technical direction to the British.

Anyway, I am very much with Eddie. How is this consistent with the strategic plan? From my vantage point it is inimical, or at least putting the cart before the horse.

Reading through the recent discussion, it seems like the main question is:

Can we do it?

But I think the question we need to be asking ourselves is:

Why do it?

If we're looking at the strategic plan...

Because we want to increase participation numbers? If so, how does hosting a WOC achieve this?

Because we want to promote the enjoyment of the environment?

Because we want to increase the excellence of our national teams?

Reading the proposal document, the only why is basically, "Because 1993 was spectacular and we have a responsibility to do it again!" The rest of the document is about hows, whats, and whos.

Regarding the responsibility of hosting, where is this pressure coming from? What can we gain from it?

Carl, there is lidar of Storrs Pond, N of the Dartmouth campus. It was flown on the same flight as the Moreau collection for last year's champs. We just finished making a base and Krum S. has probably finished the new fieldwork by now. The plan is to expand the old O-map further around the mountain as well.

Not sure if Burnt Mtn was covered on that flight since I've only seen the Storrs Pond portion. However the flight was late in the spring season and indications are there was already too much leaf cover (true-color Terra-MODIS sat photos on the date show this, and relatively poor ground sampling by the 1m lidar collection). If the Burnt Mtn area were to be re-mapped I would suggest not using this particular lidar collection to do it (assuming it was collected). I'd re-fly. Or balloon :)

Some Dartmouth College rec group is paying for the map.

Why do it?

Because it's a sales tool for the sport/brand, perhaps the best one there can be. If it's meant for us to enjoy the maps/terrain, or because it is spectacular, or for the elites to compete—no, we shouldn't do it.

without the wholesale mobilization of all resources required last time this happened.

There should be wholesale mobilization for the technical aspects. These are very hard to justify outsourcing, and nobody will willingly contract for these anyway; all labor of love, no pay. (Whatever you pay won't cover the labor even if the budget is $MM.) Outsourcing should be for non-technical things that orienteers are ill fit to do. Meaning pretty much all non-technical aspects. We know that (almost all) orienteers suck at finding sponsors, at publicity, usually at logistics, and often at putting on a decent banquet. None of these operations require technical skill, and can and will attract willing contractors.

Once the non-technical stuff is outsourced, there's a lot better opportunity for the orienteering volunteers to focus on the maps and courses, and less of a chance of a burnout. If this model is accepted, the question boils down to whether Orienteering USA can afford the contractor's services. My gut feeling is yes, but to show this may need several hundred hours of careful research work.

Regarding could it be done with 10 years lead-time. I think so, but my point is we don't have 10 years between now and 2018. We have 10 years minus the 3.5 remaining on the SP.

Regarding should we do it. I don't think there is any international pressure on us to "do our share." At this point everyone is fully aware that the US is struggling just to stay afloat domestically. Is there any pressure on Canada to hold a WOC? I don't think so.

This brings up another point related to the Starts/Memberships plan. There are lots of ideas in that plan, some of which could pay off big with relatively small effort, and some of which might be just a waste of time and money. We haven't put enough thought into which is which and winnowed out the good ones from the bad. Instead it appears that we are just going ahead with the whole lot. Hosting a WOC right now will be a major drag on our system and will barely register a blip in terms of raising awareness of the sport over here. Its simply not going to sell the way AR does for so many reasons.

Another WOC in the US in my opinion needs to go back to Harriman with sprints in a NYC park. Map revisions and updates would be a huge cost saver. Heck if Denmark can host a WOC ever again then they are almost
certainly putting in
an already used area.
Is there a way to leverage in kind support from West
Point.

Harriman is great, and a(nother) WOC there would be entirely suitable, in my unqualified opinion. But this is a huge country with a lot of great terrain and places to host a world champs. Anything else worthy?

Some questions came up in a discussion this evening:
Would we have to host in the summer? Summer isn't good for the northeast in terms of woods & weather, but it is probably good for getting volunteers, and also probably a lot better for getting more participant-spectators...

This is tangential to the question of *whether* we should host a WOC, of course, but I think if people are excited about a specific scenario then it makes the issue more concrete. Too many "ifs" otherwise.

Would we have to host in the summer?

No. The IOF will bend over backwards to accommodate whatever deviations Orienteering USA may have, the timing included.

Re: bids

Interesting article in Nopesport regarding the Scottish/British bid for 2015:

http://www.nopesport.com/news/1459-woc-2015-will-i...-

One thing I noted was the reference made to having orienteering events already recognized by mainstream TV/media in Scotland.

I have been trying to decide under what criteria I could support this bid. After much thought, my conclusion is if there is a strong and enthusiastic leadership team in place, a team that is led by people with a track record in producing international O events I am a yes vote. If the leadership team is weak or unproven, I would not support the bid.

a team that is led by people with a track record in producing international O events

That seems to be chicken and egg... or else the chicken would have to be imported.

The chicken may be the Danes who will help us put on our event. Of this, I believe that there is a possibility but not a certainty. It is certain that the Danes would have to be imported.

Here's a reason to have WOC in the US: the chance for US athletes to have huge local support at the race, and the chance for lots of Americans to come cheer. Can you imagine this in the US? How awesome would that be?

Sorry if this has come up already but how many of the OUSA board members are in France researching what it takes to put on such an event?

This is all pointless and just "shafling of bits" on this discussion board without OUSA securing at least $500K grant from government/USA Olympic body/major sponsor within one year.

Sergey, get real. You know this won't happen, and you know this isn't necessary.

TD, I didn't say get $500K within one year. I said secure this money. OUSA would need at least that much to pay all expenses before WOC (mapping, equipment, securing reservations, etc.), "import" USA team to Dane for training, and to "export" support team from Dane.

Taking loan is not an option as may ruin orienteering financial base in this country. I believe all clubs and OUSA has combined much less than the required $$$.

I doubt that that even that much will be recovered with WOC and accompanying festival fees.

On the same note, I wonder if anyone from OUSA obtained budget plans from previous 3 or so WOCs and looked at expenses before, during, and after WOCs. And took into account $ inflation.

And this is just $$$ side. I am not speaking about technical aspects of the O sport in the country that is not capable to put flowless national championship events.

I hope that new VP of Competiotion is working hard right now to secure and assign controllers and event advisors for all coming and future national and international championships.

Looking at budgets from other WOCs and JWOCs is in the plans but has not been done. There is also a desire to look at the "burnout" factor for the countries that have recently run these events. If someone would like to do the research on this, it would help move the process along. Presently, the numbers are shot in the dark estimates. The time frame for figuring out what ultimately occurs is about a year.
I will say that this thread is a good one and is helping to look at the pros and cons. Further discussion is completely encouraged.

If you do it right, the budget will be between $1M and $1.5M, 2011 U.S. dollars. About 20% technical-related, the rest non-technical. I include everything, for example if there is an athlete's (or spectators') village that is resold by the organizers, I include the rent. Also includes the value of in-kind.

For what it's worth, the French Fédé was close to bankruptcy two or three years ago, there were serious discussions about subsuming it into the French Federation of Hikers (seriously!).

A BIG sponsorship deal with ERDF got them back on track. I guess having WOC & Tero helps.