Discussion: SI sticks for Billygoat

The course is set for the Billygoat in May at Huntington State Park, Redding CT. It's gonna be a good one!

Now, we need some input about your SI Stick if you are planning to give it a go. The course has 36 controls. Many of us have SI5 sticks and they have room for only 30 controls. How do you know what you have? Check the number. (for the chart, go to https://www.sportident.co.uk/ssl/sicard/SPORTident... or see below).

If it's SI5, the number will be between 1 – 499,999. That won't work because it holds only 30 controls.

If it's SI6, the number will be between 500,000 –999,999. That's good.

It it's SI8, the number will be between 2,000,000 –2,999,999. That won't work because it only holds 30 controls.

If it's SI9, the number will be between 1,000,000 –1,999,999. That's good.

So, if you plan to run the Goat this year, you need to have the correct SI stick. Please check yours and let us know what you have.

We are willing to rent you an SI9 for a nominal fee, but there are not enough rentals to cover all runners.

So, we are willing to buy a bunch of SI9 sticks at a bulk rate if enough of you order ahead of time. The price will be $52, a great savings!

One of the benefits of the SI9 is that it reads at least 3 times faster so you'll shave time off every control.

Please e-mail me ASAP with your stick type and which option you would go for if you don't have the proper one.

Oh, go ahead, get a new one. You'll be almost as fast as Sam or Ross out there if you do! (well, I can't actually promise that. . . .)

Or have 6 skips? ;-)

who said anything about skipping.

who said anything about skipping

Umm, it's the Billygoat.

Forks would also reduce the total controls punched.

Just posted this on Clubnet...

Another possibility:
Program 6 controls as Finishes. They will just overwrite each other until the actual finish. I think this is how AZ handled one of the 2010 Barebones events (the Stanley Park L O N G sprint), where many courses had over 30 controls.
(made a mess of splits, though; and forget about RouteGadget.)

yeah, it's the Billygoat and anything goes. so as course setter, maybe there will be no skips or forks this year.
thanks for the tip Guy, but not programming finish controls, get a new SI or rent one.

Coming to the Billygoat, Guy? It's been a while. And you can have the opportunity to almost double your lifetime total for number of Billygoat controls (you can double it exactly if you don't skip anything).

Not to complain too much, but, Joe, why didn't you just use less than 36 controls? For me, this is a reason to skip the Billygoat - I can't afford to buy a whole new SI for one race, when my SI5 is still perfectly good. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this position. Its too bad because I think the Billygoat is an awesome race. Can we get some justification for why the BG has to have 36 controls, or is it just a matter of submitting to your whim? Thanks

We will have SI9 sticks to rent at a very nominal fee, so if you don't want to buy one, you don't have to.

Note that the SI-5's hold 30 punches with times, 6 with codes and in order but no times, plus a start, check and finish. Thus, as long as folks don't punch twice or out of order and have to repeat, the SI-5 should be sufficient for recording 36 controls. The last 6 controls just won't have times. The SI-8 only holds 30.

Note that an additional option is to borrow one. There are no doubt some people around who have SI-6 sticks who are not up for running the Billygoat.

Alex, your SI5 isn't perfectly good. It's not so much the half-second that makes the difference; it's not having to think, have I left it in long enough, is it about to beep, yes, there's the beep, I can go. That's distracting, and hurts flow. Upgrade.

Sandy, yes, as long as...

HVO has a series of SI sticks. I have to check if they are the version you need. I sent you an e-mail about this.

HVO's rentals are SI-8s. While of the newer style, as Sandy said, they still only have a 30-control capacity. Not sure if they as fast as the SI-9s.

BTW, ndobbs, please make sure that none of your Team Trials courses will have more than 30 controls. ;-)

@ONA, A Billygoat entry bundled with an SI-9 card would make a nice package deal. Might even get me out there!

However, for those, like acjospe, who only wish to rent, $0 would be the appropriate, very nominal fee. It's only fair, since the decision to have 36 controls was made knowing most participants have SI-cards with a 30-control limit.

Getting on my flame retardant suit...

So would you similarly say that at the early meets that used epunching, there should have been no rental fee since most people didn't have epunches yet, and were used to pin punching which did not require any additional equipment?

$0 would be the appropriate, very nominal fee

They did this at all WREs I've been to in Europe in the second half of the 2000s. You show up at the start, they check your SI, and if it won't hold the 35++ controls typical of a Long WRE nowdays, they hand you a fingerstick, which they then try to pry away from you at the finish.

$0 will be a very appropriate rental fee..

As I recall, the first Highlander (1999?) to use e-punching had the nominal fee of $0...

GuyO, worried about not making money from SI rental?

One idea for the sprint was to have a 37m course with 37 controls. It would be a good predictor of the final team. We'd have to apply for an exemption to the 60m rule, though, otherwise the course would have to be 2.28km long...

So would you similarly say that at the early meets that used epunching, there should have been no rental fee since most people didn't have epunches yet...

Hmmm, I did think about that, but then realized that courses with >30 controls are not likely to become the norm.

BTW, a $0 rental fee could be the same as "included with Billygoat entry", with the entry fee set accordingly. Also, I would still charge $2-3 rental to participants who don't own any SI-card.

Also, I would still charge $2-3 rental to participants who don't own any SI-card.

So... anybody can claim that they have an SI-5 when they're signing up. I have a hard time imagining that you'd make them show the unsuitable card at registration.

Look, people, this isn't that hard. There's a special race with a lot of controls. To participate in this race, you need to use a card with enough capacity. There aren't going to be any special tricks to get around the limitations, everybody needs to use an SI-6 or SI-9 card, which they can either own, buy, borrow from a friend, or rent for the customary fee. The question on the table is about how many people are going to go for each option, so that the organizers can make sure that they have enough equipment for sale/rent.

So... anybody can claim that they have an SI-5 when they're signing up.

No. Just like registering for an A-event, you either provide your SI# or indicate that you'll be renting. If the number is not within the 500,000 - 1,999,999 range, you get a loaner SI-9 at check-in. Easy -- and having been a registrar on several occasions, I know of what I write.

That said, as jjcote indicated, the organizers are trying to get an idea of how many SI-9s they will need to obtain for the event -- regardless of whether they are sold, loaned for $0, or loaned for >$0. So, if you think you'll be running the Billygoat, and don't already have an SI-6 or SI-9, please let ONA know.

I will run the Billygoat and have an SI-6 already.

Thanks, Boris.

I will beat Boris with my SI-6.

We have a bet here, the challenge has being issued!, but I will put my money on Ross this year, it's about time he wins one. And, please, no more posts about SI cards :)

I will beat Boris on one split with my SI6.

Maybe.

The WCOC Billygoat webpage calls it 'complete information,' but just mentions epunch rental. The Billygoat info should probably include informaton about usable punches so you don't have surprises day-of from people who don't read Attackpoint (heresy, but they do exist ;-)).

The original message was also posted on Clubnet. When the final details are arranged for the sticks, I will post it on the club site as well.

I have an SI5 stick but I live in Australia so I don't care about your Billygoat. Bring on the Boomer!

what about old fashion paper punching for the overflow controls?

... soooo 20th century ;-)

.... soooo much less that 50+ smackers for a new SI stick!!

Rent.
A.
Stick.

If I do the race, I will use my SI-5. Basically I'd be doing it for fun and if I miss a few splits or get Dq'd, I don't care.

Would you care about pissing off the organisers and half the competitors? And you wouldn't get the T-shirt.

I don't see why using the SI-5 would p-o the organizers or other competitors. It just means carlch would miss some splits. As long as he acknowledes that -- ie does not bother the e-punch person when he gets the odd splits sheet -- no feathers should be ruffled.

I'm learning from this that if I ever organize a race where I need competitors to use a specific piece of equipment, I'll charge everyone more in the entry fee to cover it and then offer a sweet discount to anyone who happens to have their own. Maybe then people would just do it instead of generating a silly 40-comment thread.

@ ndobbs:
I certainly don't want to piss anyone off, organizers or other competitors. But I don't understand how using the SI-5 would do that. I mean, if I don't have the right punches in the right order, aren't I just disqualified like anyone else that might want to quit early? And like I said above, if I do the event, it's just to have fun. Honestly, I don't care how I place or if I'm DQ'd; for me it's more about how "well" I orienteer than how I finish.

I am so glad that I dissolved the DABSC last year so that I don't have to be directly involved in this stupid controversy. Good luck, everybody.

Guess I am renting...
DABSC gone?! J-J Please reconsider.

I guess you weren't listening at the end of the awards ceremony last year. The DABSC is gone. The Billygoat is on its own from this point on.

Only 15 responses to the initial post requesting SI info from potential competitors. thanks for the help.
new info will be posted on the WCOC website sometime this week. it will be final.

D?
A?
Billygoat
Steering
Committee

Seriously, people, it really isn't a big deal. I can't believe that otherwise perfectly rational, intelligent and reasonable orienteers are making such a fuss over an SI stick. Joe is a fantastic course-setter. He designed a course he is happy with. It will be a privilege to run it. Pay the 2 dollars or whatever for renting the SI-6 and then just enjoy the orienteering. Christ.

otherwise perfectly rational, intelligent and reasonable orienteers

remarkable generosity of spirit, Boris.

Joe, for those who have emit, could you set up six controls with emit punches instead of SI punches? They'll just carry both and save the bother of renting an SI stick.

So now the billygoat is an unsanctioned event. Without the DABSC, the billygoat has been brought down to the level of - dare I say- a local meet. Hy heart is heavy with grief. At the same time, I am outraged at the injustice!!! The goat is WORTHY of a patron.
JJ, what caused the demise of such a hallowed institution? What can we do to bring it back?? should we start a petition? Maybe mass protests in the streets?

Missed the goat last year so I missed the announcement.

I believe someone (Brendan?) has volunteered for the duties of statistician and records keeper. I can't remember if someone also has taken over the role of finding organizers. But the Billygoat lives on, despite the disappearance of the DABSC.

The Billygoat was never "sanctioned", though you might say it was "blessed" or something. Anyway, it was simply time, and we're done. If the Billygoat is actually that cool, it will have enough momentum to figure out how to bootstrap itself, like it did back in 1991. (Stats will continue, whether I do it or somebody else, but figuring out where and when the event will be after this year is up in the air.)

May the Maker bless the billygoat.

You talking about this guy?

is he The Maker???

He set the first Billygoat.

Indeed The Maker! I always thought it was Peter G. He seems intimately associated with the billygoat.

PG vetted the first one, set the second, and then set numbers 4 - 13.

What a guy!

it's the Billygoat and anything goes...

Not to complain too much, but, Joe...

Look, people, this isn't that hard...

Rent.
A.
Stick...

Maybe then people would just do it instead of generating a silly 40-comment thread...

Seriously, people, it really isn't a big deal...

Or turn the "TV" off...

Or Whatever!

Whenever...

Start time is the same.

Be there. It's the name of the game.

And bl is one of the people who most authoritatively knows what he's talking about.

I hope everybody has that out of their collective system. The Grunt coming up in 2 weeks has >30 controls.

R
A
S

We have si9's for rent. reserve now, quantities r limited. And if u call in the next 15 minutes you'll also get.... Just 3 easy payments.

If you do the Speedy Goat any SI stick will work :^) ...and don't forget that there will be W/Y rec courses on Saturday during the Speedy Goat and W/Y/O rec courses on Sunday. Even if your family isn't going to do the Billy Goat they can still orienteer! All proceeds from the Speedy Goat and rec courses go to support the Team.