Discussion: Icebugs

I wanted to thank Marie-Cat for putting Sandy into the Icebug shoes. Sandy raved about them, so I went searching. I was able to find two pairs (different models - one men's & one women's) in the US. Having size 10 feet helped the search as there were no smaller sizes available.

I have worn them at my last three O meets. The studded bottoms have great traction, and my feet don't hurt like they do when I wear O shoes. Yes, they are a little heavier than O shoes, but I wore them for 7 hours yesterday with no problems.

So where's the best place to get these things? I looked at them in Denmark but they were real pricey. I guess they are pricey everywhere?

Well, they are probably no more expensive than the O shoes I have bought from overseas...

I was able to buy last year's model of the pair I like the best of the two at Mountain Gear. They have a pair of men's 9 left for $100, about $39 less then this year's line.

I bought my women's model at Reliable Racing. Though they seem to be out of them now...

Careful Valerie with advertisement, Eddie might be watching...

Ice Bugs rock!

From a pedorthist point of view, I stopped wearing o-shoes over 2 years ago. I find them so wooshy-washy that I was getting a lot of knee pain even with my orthotics. I really liked the studs but wanted a "real" shoe as opposed to a cardboard slipper. Icebugs (and also Serva? I forget the name but Gail-o has them) are built more like a regular running shoe and offer a much stiffer sole that controls both the rearfoot and the forefoot better. They do have a downside, and it's the fact that the midsole is considerably higher than a regular o-shoe and that can be more dangerous for ankle sprains. But other than that, anybody that's prone to plantar fasciitis, knee pain, ankle pain... those shoes are the way to go.
Icebug fits quite wide, Serva is much narrower.

VJ Sarva is very similar to the Icebugs and can be found via the link here.
Another downside - apart from being on the heavy side - is that they take 'for ever' to dry after using them under wet conditions.

A boot dryer is a really nice thing to have - drying your shoes after every training run and race diminishes the chances of developping nasty fungus. Scary to think that about 60% of the patients I see have either nail fungus and/or athlete's foot. It is very commonly misdiagnosed.

Barbie, do you find the Sarvas still work for you? The last is more curved since they changed the design in 2004: I can no longer use them. And Icebugs I find I can't use - too low-backed for my orthotics. I'm now back to running in regular running shoes (Brooks Beast in my case). Are there any o-shoes for the severe pronators?

I do have a pretty straight foot but the Sarvas still work for me. Are you getting blisters in the arch?
Do your orthotics have a bit of a heel lift (are they thicker than 2mm in the heel cup)? It seems to be a trend to lift the heel with rigid orthotics and that would be a real problem with Icebugs or any shoe that is not very deep or has a fairly wide heel.

Olway has improved their shoe with a bit of a denser material on the medial side of the heel and tiny bits at the forefoot, which has improved the situation slightly for pronators, but overall it only extended the life of the shoe for a severe pronator from I say 2 months to about 4 months before the heel counter gets deformed. Still not quite there.
There is a guy in Calgary that studs regular shoes - that might be a solution for you.

Yeah, definitely more than 2mm.

The issue with the last was more that it seemed less stable than before. I also seem to have problems with the heel height for the Sarvas too - half the time I can tie the laces to keep the foot in the shoe and circulation active, and half the time I can't...

I haven't tried Olway in a long time: I'll give that a look next time I see an O-gear shop.

Can u get Brooks Adrenaline ASR in the US? Although they have a more curved last then the beast they are still quite supportive and are 'off-road' version of the standard Adrenaline. Meaning a heavier/tougher upper and better traction on the sole. No dubs but still quit good.

Hum... I am affraid that a lot of the heel lifting is coming from the pretty thick orthotic. Are you like 300lbs?
If not, you could throw them on the grinder and thin out that heel cup down to about 1mm. Will be much easier to fit in shoes.
Also, piercing an extra hole at the top of the laces towards the heel, about 1cm from the last one allows you to use the heel-lock system that most running shoes have. It really helps to lock the heel down without clamping down arteries.

Is there anyone in Vancouver, BC that sells these?

Probably a better question would be, "Who in Canada sells them?" or "Who in the US sells them?"

Hmmm, 300lb... ha ha. The Beasts are for pronation control, not 'gravity' control. They're tanks, but they do work for the former as well as the latter. Some good suggestions.

Dave, do you use the Brooks? Do you need orthotics in them or not? Anyway, they're probably worth a try too for me.

"take 'for ever' to dry"

Take the insole out and stuff the shoes with newspaper. Sucks the water right out. Change paper after a bit when the first lot gets soaked.

I don't know who sells them in the US, but in Canada there are more and more retailers that carry them for winter running - which sometimes makes them hard to find during orienteering season. I got mine from Whitehorse, but there are a few distributors all over Canada, some chains and some independant stores and pedorthic clinics. I do know one of the Canadian reps so I can ask him if you let me know what area of Canada someone is looking for - Dragon Fly I will investigate for you.

This season I shall now be mainly wearing these in the forest... http://www.icebug.se/ShowFolder.asp?id=78

Now I have to change direction with my earlier comment. I had been to icebug's website earlier to look for dealers (last week in fact), and it appeared there was only one place to buy them in the US and in Canada. I just went back and the default mode of their website is to show distributors, not retailers. Interestingly, they don't have information for Canada, but they do have a Retailer List for the US.

Welcome to Canada Tim... but it doesn't snow that much in T.O.

I just like the fur trim...

They have these at MEC, which I always though were icebugs but now I don't think so, since they don't actually say that on them.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PROD...

Nevermind, I guess they are icebugs, only they're the "training" ones not the "racing" version which are what I've seen before.

I've ran at Hickory Run in Icebug MR2 BUGrip. The grip on wet rocks (Saturday) wasn't as good as regular O'shoes. But, the shoes are more comfortable for me (and fit my insoles).

I bought them in Sweden, but they are also available here:


http://gusa.stores.yahoo.net/i45009gm.html

Yeah, Garmont is the Canadian distributor. The trainer (as seen on the picture you posted) is a bit heavier than the racer but has the same sole. Colin Kirk used to be able to order them for NAtional Squad members and get them at a slightly lower price - better than MEC anyway. Unless, if MEC gets stuck with them like they did with La Sportiva Slingshot, be preparred to buy a lifetime supply of them!

The MR2 BUGrip is listed at 358 grams on the Icebug.se page, which is the tied for the lightest shoe they sell. So, it might seem a bit heavier, but it probably isn't.

cedarcreek gave the link (above) for the retailer list in the US -- it includes Campmor, which is an outdoor retailer with a catalog and a
website...

However, they appear to only have Men's size 8 and 8.5 at the moment, on sale for $49.95...

A less expensive alternative was suggested by an RMOC member who's also an ultrarunner (Adam Feerst):

"If you want to run on icy trails, then you need to learn about Screw Shoes. Briefly, insert hex head sheet metal screws point up into the sole of the shoe. Point up? Yup! That's what I said. It's the head (make sure you use hex head screws) that grips the ice. You won't feel the point. Your traction will be fine over short paved sections. I use #6 screws (#8's should work well too) with 1/2" in the heel and 3/8" in the forefoot. You can use a power drill with a magnetic tip. A socket (6.5m or 1/4") works well too. Don't try it with just a hand screwdriver. Place the screws where you tend to strike. For me, that's the back, mid and outer heel, and across the forefoot mainly under the ball of the foot. Putting anything on the inner heel, under the arch or toe doesn't do me much good. Place them on ridges on the sole if you want. Be careful with screw placement if you have air or gel shoes."
http://skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

Fast Trax Ski and Run shop here in Edmonton carry the Invo8 line of trail/fell/Orienteering shoes from the UK. The Mudclaw O+340 looks good, Matt from here just got a pair and maybe he can give a review.

http://www.fasttraxskishop.com/orienteering_gear.p...
Jack will ship all over North America I'm sure.

I have a pair of MudRoc 280 from Inov-8. They are light and have a great fit (for me). A little slippery on wet asphalt. They are perfect sprint shoes for combined forest/park/city sprints.

Jon Duncan of the GBR team tests shoes for Inov-8 and is pretty satisfied with their products in general.

I used to "screw" my shoes before I switched to real O-shoes (I don't think Icebugs existed back then, at least not on this side of the Atlantic). I don't know that it's any cheaper than buying studded shoes. The hex screws work great, but they don't last that long and after a couple replacements, the sole is trashed.

I ordered three different pairs from Inov-8 last week. Theirs just seemed like a sane approach to shoe design, finally—none of those super-high ankle-twisting heels, and hopefully comfort level less spartan/nordic than that of VJ. I'll test all three and let y'all know.

Hmm, the Inov-8 shoes look cool, but you guys are suggesting them for trail running, not o-racing, right?

Just as I said, I'll let you know. Inov-8 specifically suggests certain shoes (all of the Mudclaws) for O-racing.

Nopesport had a discussion recently on Inov-8 shoes. It's worth a read if you're considering trying them (scroll down a bit to find the more useful posts)!

I just won a pair of INOV -8 shoes for a trail race, and I've worn them twice. I have the Mudclaw "O" 330 without metals studs and they have the Mudclaw "O" 340 with studs. They are designed to be orienteering shoes. The first time I wore them I got a small blister on my heal, and the second time I put duct tape around the back of both my heals and they were fine. I wore them first for a meet at Pawtuckaway and then for the sprint at the US champs. They are low in the back and I think that is what gave me the blister the first time. I can wear most o shoes well though, so maybe I just have durable feet.

I have a pair of MR2s. They seem less durable than real O-shoes, so I only use them on snow and ice, and preferably for road/trail running.

Has anyone tried (or even seen in person) the Asics Gel Arctics?

FYI:
I looked at REI and noticed that they have sizes 8-12 in both MR3 (28 oz) ($120) and MR4 (30 oz)($140). I'm not sure how that compares for weight and price.

I like my INOV8 340, really have an excellent grip. As for the blistering problem, that only occurs if doing races 1.25-1.5 hours+ in length, and you can tape your heels to prevent that. With the right socks they are quite good o-shoes. However, not great on bare rock, because at the North Americans a few of my studs snapped off. Definitely find the actual shoe part more comfortable than that of more traditional o-shoes, and relatively lightweight and do not gain much weight when running through swamps. Much better than the trail runners I used to wear until last season.