Discussion: Route choices for the new guy

I realize that the following request may be a bit unorthodox, but since I’m new to orienteering and this is after all an orienteering community site, I thought some might go along with the idea.

I’ve been going through my maps from the three days of FP and trying to analyze my route choices. Firstly, my times on the courses were so far behind the leaders mostly because of HUGE errors on a few legs (up to16min spent on one control – no I’m not exaggerating). These large mistakes I attribute to inexperience. Aside from these legs my splits were respectable I think, however still quite a bit slower than the leaders. By no means do I expect to be able to run splits equivalent to that of the leaders, however I’m still very interested in where the differences in time come from. Those who know me, know that I am by now means slow on my feet, and running in the woods is not new to me either. I realize that the difference in my splits vs. the leaders is attributed to a combination of factors, however I think a big one is route choice. The fact is what probably seems like a sin of a route choice to a successful orienteer is most likely what I can be caught running.

My request: I know that it is common practice for racers to red ink their routes after their race. Being new, curious, and motivated, I think I could learn a great deal by seeing others’ route choices. It would let me get into your head a bit as to what your train of thought is when running with a map while having to make quick decisions. Perhaps this would be giving away your top-secret strategy, but I don’t think so. So, I’m asking if anyone, with the ability and time, would like to scan their maps and perhaps email them to me. I ran the sprint, short course (blue), and classic (blue).

nielsen@ninthvector.com

Any general input on this subject would be appreciated as well.

Well, let me say that anyone who went back out into the forest on Sunday after racing the Short on Saturday deserves a medal or two for bravery, with a "V" device for valor, a "M" device for severe multiflora wounding, and a "S" device for stupidity (include me among the guilty). Drawing your routes in red ink is ok, though I find I get much better race results when I use blue ink. Whatever you do though, never, never, ever use pink ink--that's strictly for wusses! ; ) And that's all the time I have for sharing top secrets right now.

Hey Kristoffer, not sure how much my route choices would help you, but if you are interested and have the time, I am happy to discuss the courses with you in detail either by phone or instant messenger, with each of us having the maps in front of us. Email me if you are interested. (boris at post dot harvard dot edu). Plus, my scanner is broken.

Thanks Boris! I'm heading to L.A. for the weekend in a little bit for an Xterra race. Perhaps I'll take you up on your offer when I get back.

One of the best orienteers in the country lives up in NH someplace. Her name is Erin Olafsen. If I had questions about route choice I'd probably talk to her first. I bet she's never ever used pink ink. 'Cause if she had boy...pow-ZING...straight to the moon!!!

Honestly I think if Erin hears one more comment from me about my races this past weekend, she'll throw me from the plane tomorrow morning. :o) But otherwise good point.

Peter Gagarin's red course routes are on the web. You might be able to learn something from him or at least mock his wussiness.

I would mock his wussiness: pink, plus Peter, what were you thinking from 10 to 11 on Sunday? :)

Uh-oh! (deep, sinking feeling...) Nobody, but nobody has ever messed around with the Sprint Commissar and lived to tell about it. I take back everything I said about using pink ink for drawing in your routes. In fact, pink is definitely the way to go! Who would even think of using some other color???! You'd have to be an idjit or something!

There are some excellent post-race route analysis tools, like RouteGadget. It not only shows the routes, but when linked with e-punch results, it allows the race to be replayed, even simulating a mass start. You will actually see little squares run across the map.

I have been setting up BAOC's local events on RouteGadget for the last 6 months and it has become quite a hit. Take a look! For RouteGadget
introduction visit
http://baoc.org/gadget/
or go directly to
http://baoc.org/gadget/cgi/reitti.cgi
to select an event.

Is anybody planning to set up FP courses on RouteGadget or similar? For RouteGadget it's quite easy; all it takes is the map image, Condes
file, and e-punch results. See
http://baoc.org/gadget/
for details.

What was I thinking from 10 to 11 on Sunday (I assume you meaning from control 10 to 11, and not from 10 to 11 am, or pm)?

Let's see.... I was actually thinking about taking the trail to the right and going through the start area, since the direct route to the road didn't look all that inviting. And I should have, because just after Kenny came zipping past, looking very smooth and fast, the next one passing me was the Swampfox, huffing and puffing but also moving pretty fast, and just as he passed me I got a branch in the eye that neatly removed the contact I use for distance vision.

Did Swampfox do it? I'm not sure. He might have, he might not. In any case I was now pretty blind. I'd been planning to take the road around to the left for a while, but now there was no doubt, since I used to time to extract my rogaine glasses from their secret compartment on the back of my shorts, and lo and behold I could see again. And I continued on to the control.

Does that answer the question?

By the way, think how good shape all of you would be in if even half the time spent on the AttackPoint discussion board was spent training....

And if you were in really good shape, then you'd draw your routes in pink and care less what anyone else said. :-)

"We" are not shorting training for AttackPoint discussion. It's all coming out of work time and "The Man" is paying for that. Does it matter if we use a soft soothing shade of pink versus a hot pink?

On a slightly more serious note: the best route choice for an intermediately experienced navigator might be different than for an experienced one. Sometimes a safer route can be faster than 'straight but with mistakes' or 'straight but hesitant.' So keep in mind your own strengths and weaknesses when you are looking at other people's routes.
On the other hand - there is much to be learned from experienced people in terms of what they see out there, and what techniques they use, and of course why they choose certain routes.
Finally, it was the Flying Pig, so surely pink is appropriate ... pig-colored-pink.

I'm starting to wonder if Peter even knows who we are--I'm pretty sure I was the first one past him, though he surely got the huffing and puffing part right. It seemed like every imaginable thing was in the way up that little stretch of the stream valley, plus some broken glass and other trash on the ground that had me more worried about that than avoiding downfall, thorns, and M45ers. When I see broken glass and boards and old cans on the ground, I start worrying about the possibility of some serious foot damage. And that's ironic, because...

I got one of my ankles real, real good just after leaving #18 (a little worse and I wouldn't have finished), and for another few days my main training is going to consist of yardwork while the ankle heals up. It looks like the proverbial tangerine is under the skin and sticking out of one side of said ankle.

I encourage everyone who puts splits on attackpoint to also put in some comments as to what route they took. All to often the top orienteers put in splits and rarely any comments. The comments would be a good learning tool as one could see what route was quickest given the relative speed of the competitor.

Better yet, draw the whole route to RouteGadget.
http://baoc.org/gadget/

My Pig routes are here

Sounds to me, that you have to build up your set of navigation skills. While discussinng route choices might be interesting, you have to develop your own strategy.
First I would recommend to slow down: A 16 minute mistake indicates, that you completely lost contact with the map and also had no way to relocate quickly.
There are several route choice theories, like the green-yellow-red (which doesn't make sense to me, a) I am not a traffic light b) it induces mindless running in the green stage and sitting on the breaks in yellow and what, a full stop in the red). Same with the attack point theory (rough navigate to attack point and fine navigate from there).
So what to do: Plan your route ahead of time, if possible during the previous leg.
Simplify it to have a clear image in your mind what you will do. Define a route which helps you to find the control, according to your map skills you have (not some fictional elite runner).
Execute the route choice while carefully navigating, never ever lose touch with the map. You might overdo it in the beginning, but at least you don't lose contact and won't spend 16 minutes lost in the woods (which basically would allow you to walk the leg backwards).
Be aware that route choices made while sitting at home are not what you do in the woods: While running you make the decision in a split second. You need to be able to scan the map for large features, trails, mountains, streams and vegetation to visualize the landscape within seconds.
Relocating is easy to train. Run on an unknown map as fast as you can while putting the map away. Stop and relocate. Or run with a partner who leads you through the woods and has you point out exactly where you are when he/she stops. There are two skills involved: Remembering where you have been and using any distinct feature around you to define your position.

Great map resolution! Two of Mike's legs caught my attention. Mike and other Blue runners:
1. Sunday (long) 14-15: What favored long trail run over straighter? Was it most popular choice?
2. Saturday (short) 4-5: With pretty open woods, how was straight? Trail still faster?

rarmst: 1. I did the same. It turned out to be slightly slower but the advantage of passing by 16 and therefore being able to motor towards it made up for the difference. I personally didn't want to risk the slope next to the out of bounds area being slippery.
2. The relevant question was 'how slippery was the ground?' Answer: very. Straight was slower, I think, but not by much.

I think straight was faster (at least in my case) because that green wasn't that bad at all.

An alternative (competitor?) to RouteGadget is Runoway.

Well, I was not at the pig, but I feel inclined to comment. I think that alot of the difference between an elite orienteer and someone who can run as fast and navigate (but as seperate entities almost) is that the orienteer can navigate better on the run. Sure you ran fast, but how often did you stop/slow down. I have often been amazed how easy some top orienteers make it look, but they are so smooth...
Also, I will re-iterate the point that there is no one "fastest" route, but there is a fastest route for you! Think of your strengths and weaknesses:
slower runner/good navigator = straigher route
faster runner/poorer navigator = futher around for an easier route that lends itself to faster running
etc....

Learn from the best... but it should perhaps come with a don't try this at home health warning...

http://kalevanrasti.fi/files/kr/tero/teron_analyys...

i think it is the same as that which ended up in o-sport which usually has interesting route analyses.

Long (14-15): I had made mistakes on #10, 11, 12, 13, and 14! So I needed to settle down so a long trail around to #15 seemed best. It allowed me to see #17 and #16 (and to get an idea of where I was relative to other racers).

Middle (4-5): SI at #5 wasn't working when I got there so I have no split. I went around because I had made a 30 second error to #2 (partly because I was having trouble focussing because it was so slick) in the same area. Like in the long race I used it to settle into the race and plan ahead.

If time permits I'll put comments beside the splits later.

my maps are here, here, and here.

I've got the same comment to Middle 4-5 as Mike, only I did a mistake of 90 seconds to #2, and didn't feel confident until I got to 4.

Long 14-15: I ended up on Peter's route. I didn't see the road around to the right and was confident with my technical skills again after I've found 13 and 14 easily. So I went straight until I hit the road, but by that time I had enough of all the green that's why I chose to stay on the road. The biggest problem then was that from the road to the control there was just one big swamp: a lot of time lost. As usual a change of route while you're running already is not worth it...

Up to Control 9, Kenny's routes for the Sprint are exactly what I expected to be the best. 10, 11: small variations. I am surprised nobody used the deck out of #11. Certainly going up the stairs was faster than facing those walls and steps in the parking lot behind the clubhouse.

I liked my exit from 11. it's hard to tell from what I've drawn, but rather than climb up or go around the taller wall at the north end of the parking lot, I first took a running jump up to the loading dock level, ran along the edge of that, and then leaped diagonally across the top corner onto the grass. I think it was faster than going west of the building, and certainly the shortest possible route.

I think a person can learn more about routes by writing a narrative of the course instead of drawing in routes on the map. See Platt's web site for a good narrative of the last day's race in Cincinnati.