Discussion: Rogaine Software Suggestions

Anyone have suggestions and experience with a reasonably priced, intuitive, software package for Rogaine timing and points calculations. I'm considering Rogain Manager from tak-soft but would like to hear from someone who has used it or about other options. Also, while we are on software has anyone used the OE2010 which has just been released?

We just use excel. Make a table of cells - teams in a column on left, control point values in a row across the top. When a team finishes, put a 1 in each corresponding control box on the team's line (leave the others blank or 0), then @sum at the end of the row, multiplying each (one or zero) cell by its control point value. Sort by total. The end.

Here is our 2009 rogaine results excel file.

I usually leave un-punched controls blank, but if a team comes in overtime with punches I set a 0 so you can see which controls they lost as penalties. That way you can just set everyone's points as they finish and then go back later to assess the penalty by flipping 1's to 0's

Hmmm... from the example it looks like you multiplied the "1" or "0" by the control number, I don't see a point value in the cells or formula... so if someone visited control 22 and control 33 they got a score of 55.

Unless those aren't control numbers but just really high point values.

Different rogaines do things differently, but it's relatively common to have the point value being equal to the control number.

Yup.

If you wanted to have control numbers and point values separately, just make two rows across the top. To avoid confusion you could even hide the point values by setting the font color to the same color as the cell background.

You could even hide the row.

We have a custom made programme from one of our rogainers. The screen looks like a control card. Click all the controls they got, put in a finish time and hey presto! Results.

Ahh, so you can! Thanks for the tip.

I've had a look at OE2010. I haven't used earlier versions of the software, so I can't comment on how much of an improvement this release is compared to previous versions. As a general comment, it's not the most intuitive software I've ever used - seems to do most things, but ignores class info and course variations in event files imported from Condes, which is annoying. It also won't read SI-pCards, which may or may not be an issue. If you are committed to OE software, it may be a case of your being reasonably familiar with its approach, but if you are looking for alternative event management options, Autodownload is a lot easier for casual event organisers to use and has a far more intuitive interface.

For rogaining, have you considered Navlight? (http://rogaine.asn.au/Navlight/View-category.html)

As a general comment, it's not the most intuitive software I've ever used

Ahh good, just like the old one then.

how about OR from irish orienteering http://orienteering.ie/wiki/doku.php?id=or:index (can be used with and without epunch). We use it all the time .

Ór ;)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll think we'll have a closer look at Ór as at first glance it's looking quite promising and easy to use but we may try playing with Navlight, as well. Nice thing about Ór, it downloaded, and ran on my Mac.

OE2010 - totally rewritten code. Pretty much the same idiosyncratic (inpenetrable?) interface. Lost opportunity I think. The big improvement is the flash up for non-registered competitors doesn't happen now. They just get saved as reserves, which is what you always wanted to happen. Tried the register on download option and failed to get anywhere first event. Had a backup system thankfully.

Whats nice about Ór is well is that it auto updates.
Also, for Irish events, we have a data base of SI cards. So when entering runners, we just type in there SI card number and all of there info pops up (assuming that family members don't swap SI cards etc). Makes race registration so much easier

Ór has worked well for us. Used it at our A-meet this spring.

Two things to be aware of:

It checks for updates automatically if you're online when the program starts. Fine in most cases. But a bummer if it updates right before the event and there's a problem (this happened but responsive developer fixed said problem instantly upon notification).

It seems to expire periodically. It refused to start-up the day of a meet this summer because it wanted to update and couldn't (imagine a park pavillion without internet). We couldn't download results until we got home, so no results at the meet. Wouldn't want to be the A-meet director where that occurs. Still makes me go cold just thinking about it.

Makes for an interesting catch-22.

Hi Bill.. what was the frequency/cause/ fix for the "Ór seems to expire periodically" problem ?

We use Ór all the time on a laptop that only hooks to Internet about once a month.

Hey Ian - I've seen it happen twice. Once while giving a demo to a meet director last fall and then once at the meet about a month ago. The cure was to hook up to the internet and let it do whatever it needed to do.

Hi Bill,

I have just had another user report the same problem that you had. For future reference, this is what worked for her:

1. Use the Windows Start -> Settings -> Control Panel menu.

2. Double-click Java.

3. The Java Control Panel will appear. Click the 'View...' button on the General tab. The Java Cache Viewer will appear (eventually).

4. Right-click Or and select 'Run Offline'.

5. Or should start.

I do not know what's causing the problem. I think it must either be a bug in java Webstart or something wrong in the Or configuration file.

What version of Java are you using (click 'About...' on the Java Control Panel)? Can you remember exactly what the error screen said?

If anyone sees a similar problem again, it would be helpful if you clicked the 'Details' button (if there is one) on the error screen and send me the contents.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Martin

autodownload - www.sportident.co.uk

That's good to know!

On my machine it's v6 update 17 - i've got an update waiting to install. I don't know what version was on the machine at the meet.

Sorry, I don't remember the exact error message.

We've started to use Or with good results. The one down side that remains is getting our members into the data base. Seems it only wants those in Ireland, though we have made some runs at modifying the file. Anyone have any success?

Maybe a bit off topic....but:
I loaded Or the other day, and there are couple of things I don't get.

1) Apparently you can't draw start list with it? How do you do it then?
2) For a runner you can assign both course and class? I mean isn't the course defined by selecting class? At least that's how we do it here. A class has only one course.

Also I heard from someone in Ireland that OE2003 was not good for drawing start lists because it puts whole class in same box, and it seems this is not what he wanted. I did not get an answer to why this is not desirable? Any ideas on that?

Goran

Hi Goran,

1. You can draw up a start list in a spreadsheet and import it into Or. There is a template in the 'Samples' page of the web site.

2. For approximately 90% of events in Ireland, any competitor can run on any course. The default setting in Ór is to handle this type. There are approximately 10 events per year where you have to run the correct class. For these type of events, set the 'Calculated by' to 'Class' when defining the competition.

I tried to draw a start list with OE2000 several years ago and, after many hours, had to give up and draw the list manually. For example, say I have D35 and H50 on the same course and want a 2 minute start interval. OE2000 will work well if I start the D35s as a block followed by the H50s. It will also work well if I want to intersperse classes and have similar numbers of D35s and H50s - give each class a 4 minute start interval and H50s a 2 minute offset. However, interspersing a small number of D35s and large number of H50s leads to a very long start window. To add to the problem, we always allow the competitor to pick which hour of the 3 hour start window they want. Add the fact that we often have 5 or 6 classes per course and it becomes impossible to use OE2000 to draw the start list.

Martin

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the explanation.

2) Basically this means that 21 years old person can run against 12 years or 60 years old one. Is this just like training competitions, because it does not really seem fair (or am I missing something here)?

3) The way I see it (if I understand you correctly) you should not put class in the box (or block or whatever it's called), instead you should put course and set interval for the course to 2 minutes. This way you get

LastStart = NumberOfPeopleInTheCourse*2

I am sure that when you do it manually you end up with that setup too (or am I wrong). OE2003 (not sure about OE2000) can work either with classes or courses. Though you can't mix classes and courses in the organization.

As for 1 hour windows, you should use blocks (that's not the same as block above - it could be named window too, because it's exactly what you are referring to). Set 3 blocks with length of 1 hour, and assign each runner block 1 or 2 or 3 and you should be fine.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to make you use OE200X software. I have been using it on large competitions, and found (other) problems with it myself. I am just trying to understand your problem, because I am writing my own software, and do want to cover all needs.

Goran

> 2) Basically this means that 21 years old person can run against 12 years or 60
> years old one. Is this just like training competitions, because it does not really
> seem fair (or am I missing something here)?

Yep. It sounds insane but people seem happy with it.

In regard to OR for non Irish clubs and the archive , at MNOC we just copied the format of the OR Irish archive format ( a csv file) with all our member owned e-punch sticks (name and e stick #) and also our rental ones and then saved it as the archive.csv file in the OR program directory.

We make sure that we don't overwrite with the Irish archive; we also have a shortcut to it on the desktop so we can add new cards. You know it is working right when you click on "about OR" and the info about where the archive is and the # of competitors and rental cards shows up .

Doesn't Or go online, when it gets a chance, to check for updates including the member archive? How do you prevent the file from being overwritten with the new Irish file? Not that there is anything wrong with the Irish, just that not many make it to CT.

I have written a FAQ which should explain how to use your own archive http://orienteering.ie/wiki/doku.php?id=or:faq#how...

Ór does not automatically update the archive, only upon request.

Martin

We had our Rogaine this past weekend and we used Ór. It was easy to set-up, easy to follow and did everything we wanted it to do, except the sorting of the results. What we didn't realize was that in a score O configuration the results are sorted on the points only. in the case of a tie you need to give a bonus point to the person with the shortest time. This gives them more points and they then rank higher in the standings. The other option is to do a quick download to excel and sort there. Now that we know this, we should be all set for next time. We'll definitely be using it again. Also, pleased with the quick feedback from Martin on our questions.

We've run into the same sorting issue for score-o's. A fix for that would be a welcome addition.

Martin - thanks. I created an archive per the FAQ for the Corn Maze Championships. Worked flawlessly. Great program.

One of the features of Navlight is that chips are assigned to teams, and physically attached to each team member with hospital straps, thus pretty well ensuring that each team member visits the control. Not that Attackpoint readers would ever contravene the rule that requires that "All team members shall simultaneously approach to within 5 metres of each checkpoint for which points are claimed", but others might. For major competitions where the use of SI is contemplated, consideration should be given to a method of ensuring that competitors are not tempted to stray from the path of the righteous.

Said method, in the case of SI, employs the same hospital/music-festival wrist straps. Which fail regularly, and certainly fail just as much with Navlight.

I can get those straps on and off my wrist (due to the same genetic connective tissue abnormality that makes me virtually sprain-proof).

As someone said previously, different associations handle it differently. Western Australian Rogaining Association (WARA) were fortunate to have Gary Carroll as a member. He created a dedicated, Java based, program called "Pebbles" to process rogaine results. It manages team details, records scores and times and sorts and prints results. We regularly have 400 - 500 people at events and the results can be produced within minutes of the end of the event