Discussion: iPhone Compass app

I got this email from someone who wrote a compass app for the iPhone. If you are interested in playing with it, give him a call or write an email.

Jeff

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From: Orienteering Compass

I am an independent software developer and live in Santa Cruz, California.
I have written an iPhone app that simulates a protractor compass.
Incidentally, I believe that this is the only iPhone app dedicated to
that purpose.
I was wondering if you would do me the honor of reviewing it.
If you think that others in the club may be interested to review it, please feel free to pass the message along.
Of course, I am not hoping to ever use a cell phone during an event,
but I'd like to think about is as a spare and a pedagogic tool.
The app is pending approval (you can't get it from Apple yet) but I
could get you a copy if you are so inclined.
The web-page for this app is:
http://thegothicparty.com/dev/iphone/orienteering-...
You can reach me at orienteeringcompass@thegothicparty.com, or by phone
@
831 713 4513
Sincerely,
Xavier Schott

Why would anybody be interested in iPhone Compass app?!

He made a posting on our web site as well and I treat this as a SPAM.

that video is completely awesome.

Cool! I'm guessing it won't work on an Ipod Touch though..

that has to be the worst video for orienteering I have ever seen in my life. who in there right mind would ever take it seriously, let along try it, after seeing that

the new 3GS iphones have a compass built in, though how usable it is for orienteering I don't know...

This app seems to require the 3Gs magnetometer capability, so it appears to basically be a different software implementation of the existing compass app.

The video is indeed awesome, in that I awesomely hope that no one ever interested in orienteering stumbles on it.

On the other hand, I think a protractor compass app like this might actually be of interest and use to backpackers and other people trekking long distances with shoddy maps. I think he's marketing to the wrong crowd.

Until you can attach the iphone to your thumb like a thumb compass, I'll stick with what I've got now thanks.

Very cool. Another fun app. How can you go wrong....
Clearly not a replacement for an O compass. I hope no one out there is naive enough to belive so.

I got this from the developer.
"the compass uses the internal magnetometer of the iPhone, which is a piece of hardware only available on iPhone 3Gs and iPad ). The 3G model, without the 's', won't do."

which means it won't work on the touch either.

There is no need for a compass at Indian Valley. There are enough contours on that hill to bail you out even after you orient the map to the east.

While it might be an interesting exercise to make a visual simulation of a mechanical object, it also displays some lack of imagination. A more interesting app, I think, would not look like a mechanical compass, but would present the magnetometer information in some more useful way. Maybe something like parallel lines that stay oriented to north (to show you how to hold your map) superimposed with a big direction-of-travel arrow. Something to maximize readability when on the run.

@Danger who in there right mind would ever take it seriously, let along try it, after seeing that

I think there is big difference between couple hundreds of established orienteers and thousands of those who do not have any clue...
And the target here - thousands, who have no idea what thumb compass is but have iPhone and eagerness to be cool in the woods.

I showed this video to couple of my "normal" friends and they were very glad to see how nice it is to use compass at the obvious intersection and how easy it is to run along the nice shaded trail. Video shows very nice white/yellow course run - exactly what is needed for the beginner

As a relatively new iPhone 3Gs user, I've thought that there are some interesting possibilities for orienting with the right app. It's basically a very portable computer. Think of the existing map tool that comes with it. Press the lower left corner and it triangulates your location off of cell towers and shows your location similar to the way a GPS does. Another push in the same spot orients the map and shows on screen the direction you're pointing it toward. One can already select from a few Google map views; street, satellte, etc...

Now add an option to replace the Google maps with a georeferenced image file of a good orienteering map (one that is accurate as well as one you have rights to use). Theoretically, if the map wasn't too distorted and was georeferenced well, it'd show your location on the map and always orient it correctly for you. The standard iPhone two finger expand would magnify it when you need to see detail and you could shrink it back when you wanted to see a longer course leg. The app could go further with giving you a track and waypoints like GPSs do.

I believe OCAD already allows this kind of thing if you connect a GPS but not many would carry a whole laptop/notebook into the field too. Using the location function would also amount to cheating though with cell tower triangulation accuracy probably not so fine, one would still need to be able to read the map, run and pick the right routes. An option to just see an oriented map without location assistance would make training possible and you could carry hundreds of maps around for whenever you need them.

Who would want to do such a thing with a somewhat expensive and probably not so durable iPhone? Not many but the US Army has been doing research in similar functionality and has been spending a lot trying. They have been looking at flexible displays that one could wear on an arm and show a map. Orienteering has its origins in the army so maybe flexible displays will one-day make their way to the sport too.

Nadim, have you seen this on World of O? I think it would be a great way to introduce people (especially kids) to the sport and teach beginners how to match up the map with reality.

Hmm. I wonder if the company obtained written permission from BAOC to use the Indian Valley map in their ad.

Cristina, I hadn't seen the article--thanks! I'll have to try it out sometime. I had already uploaded a few map files earlier just to see what they'd look like earlier but these weren't georeferenced or otherwise connected to an app. It figures that as long as smartphones have been out that others have been thinking along the same line already.

I agree it would be helpful for kids as a learning tool as anything they can play with is. When Max likes to go orienteering its often been partly because of friends going along, partly because he gets to eat Gu (we won't give it to him outside of orienteering), and partly just to use the epunch! He plays with our iPhones a little already so I'm sure he'd enjoy reading along on the map. He surprises us sometimes with already understanding the symbology and relationships to position but seeing his location on screen would reinforce what he's been learning.

because he gets to eat Gu (we won't give it to him outside of orienteering),

If this is why all the juniors are going orienteering, no wonder the sport can't keep them when they become college-aged and can buy consumables of their own.

It could be. I wouldn't know, not having gotten that far w/Max yet but baby steps in motivation have worked with the Pavlovian idea of association--e.g., if it is learned that Gu (or fun w/friends, or epunching) while orienteering is good, eventually just orienteering is good too. One has to start motivation somewhere and can only hope to get to the point where it's internalized and can move on in orienteering to enjoying moving fast, being accurate, or winning. I wonder how the Lyons did it with young Luke's accomplishment.

Smiley emoticon was missing from my post; I found it amusing; certainly not a criticism.

I figured as much and didn't feel attacked. I noted the Gu because I find it funny too.

Way off subject here but when our kids were little we let them watch DVD's in the car on a portable player after they finished their white course and while waiting for us to do ours. We restricted their screen time at home but not at the meets so for them, going to the events was a treat. Of course it helps that they had each other for company.

It's good to know that others do that too. The DVDs help on the long drives and do make the trips more fun for Max, but I had wondered if we should cut back. We do turn it off after 9pm on the long drives so that our son will sleep. Though DVDs and Gu are somewhat off subject for the iPhone compass tool subject, the general relationship of product to sport is still there. And I'm thinking of orienteering in a broader social sense as an activity that dominates so many of our weekends.

I don't know if it's the best thing for a sport or hobby but it's been documented by marketers that new toys spur more consumer usage and hobby/sport activity which in turn spurs more consumption. Camera and film manufactures knew this all too well and it's a big reason why new camera models would come out each year--each with a new bell or whistle for photographers to try. Ultimately the film makers lost their market though photography is doing better than ever. Running shoe companies do the same w/new models though I've read they took it a step further by discontinuing old models people liked in order to spur hoarding behavior. Take a look at how plain and more complex GPS devices have gotten people out in the woods for geocaching. Now the iPhone and other smartphones are having a run at it in a way that intersects orienteering in a small way. The smartphone is a convenient multi-tool capable product that can be upgraded quickly. The iPhone electronic compass tool may be just a first step in a trend.

@ Nadim
It's good to know that others do that too. The DVDs help on the long drives
We absolutely prohibit DVD in the car. The logic behind:
first- communication during the trip increases my (father) bonding time many-fold. One rarely has hours in a row of talking with a child on various topics (and topics are conveniently floating by the window, from cows to refineries)

Second - "free floating brain" concept.
If you think about our childhood- we had much more time for the brain to wonder around without being disturbed by various bells and whistles from TV, phones etc.
(I was spending couple months during summer @ grangparents place where there were no TV,- books and nature only)

Supposedly one needs time to digest information, and this what our children do not have nowadays.
Trip is a great time to watch around ( get a good comfortable high car seat so child can see around). Play word games, sing songs, get quality bonding time, it will not last long....

This is new... general parenting advice on AP. I find that that the value of such suggestions are inverse to the certainty with which they're given. Also, many folks are competitive about raising children; this is funny, especially when I do it.
Specific to TV, I found a place for it. I've also seen instances where the "no TV" strategy goes awry. When my young nephew, who was raised in a house where TV was forbidden (unless you were an adult), came to visit for Thanksgiving, he could not be distracted from watching the football games and especially the commercials. It drove my sister crazy to see her son so captivated after all her hard work buffering him from the evils of TV. I had to chuckle a bit.

Thanks all. We do car games and have times in silence when those wonderful kid questions come out. I've seen some of what Joe's seen too and like the moderation approach--I absolutely don't like absolutes. Oh, and my tie-in back to the topic, a bit weak, is that when Max's mom shared her iPhone with him for the first time, all on his own he compassed straight to U-Tube and pulled down a video--no one had taught him how that I know of. He did it and thought it was funny a few times, then moved on.

@ expresso: ... parenting advice ...
Sorry, was not meant to be advice, just sharing thoughts... Nadim's It's good to know that others do that too. sounded like he was hesitating, so I put my five cents there.

value of such suggestions are inverse to the certainty with which they're given

Is it only me having problems with attempt to provide argumentation being treated as (..arrogant..) certainty? :)

Back to the topic, I think iPhone applications are great way to bring young people to the woods.

@kretchet
NP. It's cool that you care/consider/plan. Too few do.
Enjoy raising your kid(s).

It just learnt that the orienteering compass app is now available for download should anyone want to take it for a run in the woods..

i downloaded it becos he made the effort.....but its a totally useless app for orienteering because no-one in their right mind would seriously orienteer with an iphone

but did it work well as a compass?

How long does it take for it to have an accurate reading after you turn it upside down and right side up again? That is a major factor in choosing real compasses. I think mine is 90 milliseconds or something like that.

I believe the iphone uses a hall sensor, which should be way faster than any mechanical compass; essentially zero settling time.

90 milliseconds is a very short settling time for a needle compass. According to Moscow Compass, their fastest compass has a 500-1000 millisecond settling time.

the video is awesome - I am sold

It might not have been 90 milliseconds. But I know it had a 9 or a 90 in it somewhere.

Do they work the same way as regular compasses?

Why settling time is so essential factor?

If you want to take a bearing quickly, it helps to have the needle settle quickly, no?

Does the ultra-short settling time outweigh the inability to see the map through the device -- or the risk of losing an $x00 investment in the woods?

If it were that interesting, one could just build a dedicated electronic compass that the map could be seen through, rather than using a phone. So why are compass manufacturers not making these? I've been talking about it for ~20 years, but it would be only as a curiosity, and I haven't had enough spare time.

OK. I thought fast settling might be essential for ARDF use or something.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up here yet, but Smart phone like the iPhone have the ability of working with the O-maps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggWjgwzPm0

I guess this could be used for training or some kind of GPS-O event. I think its neat but I am not quite sure it is helpful in learning classic orienteering.