Discussion: 3km Junior Time Trials
in: Orienteering; General
Oct 1, 2009 2:49 PM
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Oct 2, 2009 1:10 AM
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Well I won't be running any 3ks anytime soon since in xc we race 5k and i'm training for a marathon. But i have posted my 5k time from todays race in the Junior 5k splits.
Oct 2, 2009 2:17 AM
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3km is a pretty useful fitness testing distance, don't discount it because it's cross season.
Acampbell: Why are you training for a marathon at your age?
Acampbell: Why are you training for a marathon at your age?
Oct 2, 2009 2:29 AM
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Oh well i run 3200m in track so yeah i know the distance is good.
Nev-Monster: Well i have run one half marathon and planning to run another one in November. and then training for the O-marathon in December. Plus some of my classmates are running the full in November when i run the half so training with them just for December.
Nev-Monster: Well i have run one half marathon and planning to run another one in November. and then training for the O-marathon in December. Plus some of my classmates are running the full in November when i run the half so training with them just for December.
Oct 2, 2009 3:26 AM
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I don't train others, but I've read widely that many experts believe the strains of marathon training can be detrimental to young people's development.
I would recommend not running a road marathon until 21+.
The O-Marathon is different.
I would recommend not running a road marathon until 21+.
The O-Marathon is different.
Oct 2, 2009 7:36 AM
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if you're gonna be running some 5km races post them on the Junior Attackpoint 5km -http://www.attackpoint.org/racesplits.jsp/race_422... which i made last May.
Oct 2, 2009 11:36 AM
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Hmmm in philly we have this "students Run Philly Style" Group in which runners come into school and train students for long distance running. Some of my classmates are going to be running the Philly Marathon this November. It is kinda cool i think. But yes with my knees i'm not going to be running one yet. Or at least not this year.
ColmM: already posted mine for yesterday. we need to get more people to post though!
ColmM: already posted mine for yesterday. we need to get more people to post though!
Oct 2, 2009 1:49 PM
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Does this running in the school program intend students to run any particular distance? Is it geared to get people to think of road 10Ks, trail races, longer XC races, or just to think beyond 5K? Is the idea of running the marathon something the students came up with, or the runners suggested?
The Philadelphia Marathon isn't going anywhere. It will still be there when you are 20, 23, 25, 30, etc.
The Philadelphia Marathon isn't going anywhere. It will still be there when you are 20, 23, 25, 30, etc.
Oct 2, 2009 11:07 PM
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Um it is to get kids into running and to get moving to stay healthy. http://www.studentsrunphilly.org/ The organization is the ones that bring races to us. We ran Broad st., The philly distance run, A few 5k races, and then the philly Half or full marathon.
And Yes the Philadelphia Marathon will be there, the question is will i still be in philly? Thats why i want to run the half.
And Yes the Philadelphia Marathon will be there, the question is will i still be in philly? Thats why i want to run the half.
Oct 4, 2009 9:11 AM
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Hm, for a young person under 18 a half marathon should be the limit. And I wouldn't suggest a marathon until you are at least 25 years old.
Two of the girls in our club (not VERY fit but OKish) ran a half marathon a few years ago. Both were just 17 going on 18. Both had to sit most of the season out due to muscle / tendon / bone problems. One still has not really recovered fully. I'm sure the marathon stats are even worse.
I only have one tip after 15 years of training junior athletes. DON'T DO IT!!!!!
Two of the girls in our club (not VERY fit but OKish) ran a half marathon a few years ago. Both were just 17 going on 18. Both had to sit most of the season out due to muscle / tendon / bone problems. One still has not really recovered fully. I'm sure the marathon stats are even worse.
I only have one tip after 15 years of training junior athletes. DON'T DO IT!!!!!
Oct 4, 2009 1:55 PM
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Not even the O-marathon? That is just like a 6hr rogain. Should juniors not be doing that either? What about Cross Country runners putting 75-80 miles in a week? Should they not be running that?
I have heard all of the don't train for a marathon too young. and i understand that. that is why i'm not running the Philly marathon but the half. But wouldn't other things cause the same damage?
I have heard all of the don't train for a marathon too young. and i understand that. that is why i'm not running the Philly marathon but the half. But wouldn't other things cause the same damage?
Oct 4, 2009 2:28 PM
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Well yes and no......
First the training question. Although not the top expert in this area, I have found that for a young athlete less is often better than more and provides more speed (speed is the winner) in the long run. 75 - 80 miles a week is crazy and is heading towards the very professional top level of athlete with years of experience and certainly NEVER, EVER, EVER in an athlete under 21 years of age. I've trained some good athletes (all their logs are here) and they have achieved top results with 60 - 70 km / week max. (40 - 45 miles) - some even less.
Of course there are always exceptions to the rules (even some here on AP) but generally I feel that you always get more out of quality training that quantity training.
Rogaining and Marathon OL are extremely punishing physically and also cause a lot of stress to the system. Of course here it's also important how long / far the event is. However the nature of these events is stop / start, slower than normal and softer ground. These factors tend to reduce the stresses on the tendons and bones of the athlete with regards to normal road running. If you do not over do it, then a 6 hour rogaining is possible as long as you've trained and prepared well for it. Similar as a marathon OL but 42 km of running cross country is heavy, believe me I've done it. And really only once a year (in total).
There is nothing more punishing to the system than pounding out the tarmac for 3 to 4 hours, even with excellent shoes. Here the stress to your tendons and bones is massive and particually in growing people where these spots are weaker than adults anyway. So road running a marathon is (for me) a no-no for younger, growing or developing athletes. And the longer oL stuff only very occasionally and with good preparation.
Also you don't need to worry too much about short term damage. That happens to all runners and is easily fixed. These types of long distance events tend to effect your long term running injuries (down the road so to speak) and often the damage can be extensive and take years to recover from.
Of course this is all just my 2 cents - I'm sure other people can give you other advice......
First the training question. Although not the top expert in this area, I have found that for a young athlete less is often better than more and provides more speed (speed is the winner) in the long run. 75 - 80 miles a week is crazy and is heading towards the very professional top level of athlete with years of experience and certainly NEVER, EVER, EVER in an athlete under 21 years of age. I've trained some good athletes (all their logs are here) and they have achieved top results with 60 - 70 km / week max. (40 - 45 miles) - some even less.
Of course there are always exceptions to the rules (even some here on AP) but generally I feel that you always get more out of quality training that quantity training.
Rogaining and Marathon OL are extremely punishing physically and also cause a lot of stress to the system. Of course here it's also important how long / far the event is. However the nature of these events is stop / start, slower than normal and softer ground. These factors tend to reduce the stresses on the tendons and bones of the athlete with regards to normal road running. If you do not over do it, then a 6 hour rogaining is possible as long as you've trained and prepared well for it. Similar as a marathon OL but 42 km of running cross country is heavy, believe me I've done it. And really only once a year (in total).
There is nothing more punishing to the system than pounding out the tarmac for 3 to 4 hours, even with excellent shoes. Here the stress to your tendons and bones is massive and particually in growing people where these spots are weaker than adults anyway. So road running a marathon is (for me) a no-no for younger, growing or developing athletes. And the longer oL stuff only very occasionally and with good preparation.
Also you don't need to worry too much about short term damage. That happens to all runners and is easily fixed. These types of long distance events tend to effect your long term running injuries (down the road so to speak) and often the damage can be extensive and take years to recover from.
Of course this is all just my 2 cents - I'm sure other people can give you other advice......
Oct 4, 2009 5:01 PM
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yes runit.. if you want a 10km time trial just make one!! :)
i think we should put in splits for every 1km though so people can put them in if they know their 1km spits and if not just put in their total time
i think we should put in splits for every 1km though so people can put them in if they know their 1km spits and if not just put in their total time
Oct 4, 2009 7:23 PM
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Old_Fox: Thanks for your advise! and i pretty much agree with what you have to say. I'm actually not doing the full marathon in November also because my knees are iffy. I don't think doing a half will effect them too much. And With the Omarathon it is once a year and i don't really do anything too long other than that. I don't think i would want to, once is enough haha. Thanks for the concern though and i'll keep in mind your opinion since i think you have some very good points here.
Oct 5, 2009 12:37 PM
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Regarding the O-marathon: the last one was akin to a 50km trail race. I probably ran just over 29 miles, pretty much non-stop, and most of it was on trails or roads, not in terrain. Certainly far less stressful than a road marathon, but also far more stressful than a 6-hour rogaine. A lot of people made the mistake of treating it like just another long O event (6-hour rogaine?) and came out of it injured. I wouldn't take the event lightly...
Oct 5, 2009 2:14 PM
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Well, I'll get on the old codger bandwagon here and add my "DON'T DO THAT." If you really must test yourself in a long event in your teens, at least have the sense to use the run/walk technique. Normally, this would mean walking the uphills and jogging the flats/down, but since the point here is injury prevention rather than energy conservation, I suggest running the ups and walking the downs so you have less impact.
I am a huge advocate of volume training once your body can handle it. While some can get by on less, I don't think there's anything particularly excessive about a well-prepped runner in their late 20's doing 100-150 miles a week. But, if you try that before your bones have sufficiently hardened, you will hurt yourself in ways THAT WILL NEVER HEAL. If you want to run (or do much of anything) later in life, use this time to work on speed. You'll develop better running form and you'll leave yourself ready for the big miles when the time comes.
I am a huge advocate of volume training once your body can handle it. While some can get by on less, I don't think there's anything particularly excessive about a well-prepped runner in their late 20's doing 100-150 miles a week. But, if you try that before your bones have sufficiently hardened, you will hurt yourself in ways THAT WILL NEVER HEAL. If you want to run (or do much of anything) later in life, use this time to work on speed. You'll develop better running form and you'll leave yourself ready for the big miles when the time comes.
Oct 5, 2009 2:17 PM
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BTW, on the earlier question of why a 3K: that is the distance that best represents your VO2max (i.e., approximately 10 minutes of full-on effort). By the time you get to 5K, the limiting factor is lactate clearing, not full aerobic capacity.
Oct 6, 2009 9:43 AM
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@ runit - couldn't agree more...... LOL!
....in a nice way of course *grin* ....
....in a nice way of course *grin* ....
Oct 7, 2009 12:23 PM
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shame so much of the thread got deleted, it was the best thing on here since that guy trying to apologise to his girlfriend.
Oct 7, 2009 12:54 PM
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why was it deleted?? and can anybody post a link to that girlfriend link sounds hilarious
Oct 7, 2009 2:46 PM
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na i think it got deleted after about 250 posts coz so many people where making fun of the poor kid
Oct 7, 2009 3:00 PM
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oh.. fair enough
who tries to apologise to their girlfriend on AP??
was she on AP too?
who tries to apologise to their girlfriend on AP??
was she on AP too?
This discussion thread is closed.