Discussion: Orienteering tough on O shoes?

I have a pair of Sarva studded shoes that I use for orienteering occassionally (my secondary pair of shoes after high cut Jalas). I have worn the Sarvas about 25 times or so. The black outside sole plates containing one stud both totally delaminated on me today during a 4 hour event.

Has anyone else run into this problem? It strikes me as being a quality issue and I wonder if anyone had any success with dealing with this. I realize that orienteering destroys most clothes and footwear and perhaps I should be glad to have had them for as long as I did.

Delamination is a common problem for me on O shoes, mostly VJ's. The only glue which has worked to re glue them is resorsitol 2 part glue. It was developed to glue wood boat hulls. Difficult to use, but flexible and waterproof.

I would try Shoe Goo...I will hold just about anything...it is a very great an durable product that man soldiers in the Army use for repairs. US Army Snipers use the stuff to help make their sniper suites (Ghile) that they use to crawl all over in...its tough, holds, and lasts. Only thing I would use to repair any foot wear!!!

Shoe Goo is useless for orienteering shoes. I've tried several times.

Me too. No luck with Shoe Goo.
On a related topic, my Icebug MR2s are the most comfortable o-shoes I've had but many of the studs come out (often after just a few races). How is the quality of the newer Icebug models??

My Sarva's were ripped up at the heel after 10 days, out in Boise and Washington state, some big chunks too.
I filled and patched with shoe goo. They are still ok.

The tread on the right heel of my Innov8 RocLite 320's delam'd after about 80 hours of training use including several o-meets and 3 adventure races. Used 2-part epoxy for repair. The fix has survived one 2 hour run on some pretty rough ground.

The left shoe is ok, so far.

And honestly, at 80 hours, I was about to order some replacements anyway.

Never lost the tread off of a single pair of Montrail Vitesse, so I know it's possible to make a shoe that doesn't delaminate.

The most successful thing I've done to get more life out of O shoes is to wrap the forefoot in ductape starting from Day 1. The ductape gets pretty beat up, I replace it after every couple of races, and the shoes last about twice as long. Compared to shoes, ductape is cheap.

O shoes suck. race in running shoes.

I've used the duct tape approach for years but am trying something new with my latest pair of O shoes:
http://www.kgsbootguard.com/boot_guard.phtml

A friend gave me some and swears by it. So far so good but I've only worn the shoes about 5 times since applying it.

It seems like the Icebug Spirit OLX 09 has the same problem as the Icebug MR2 models. The model is on sale at some dealers. My experience is that the VJ Sarva holds the studs a lot better. And we are waiting for a pair of the new VJ Sarva Xero...

...O shoes suck. race in running shoes...

I don't think so - racing on wet granite in anything that doesn't have metal studs sucks (and the landings really hurt)

fletch, you keep spending $100+ on your O shoes 2 times per year and I will spend $40 on my running shoes that last 12 months and be a little more careful where I run. I doubt the difference in your finish placings is a result of your shoes.

I've heard that one's times should improve 7 seconds per mile when replacing normal running shoes with spikes... Over even a 10k race that's at least 40 seconds, and places 4-6 in this years US Champs were determined by less than 20 seconds.

Joe—I'm with you, even after getting a mild concussion in Wisconsin as a direct result of slipping on wet mini-rocks. Orienteers are deranged.

My Inov8 Mudclaws had all the metal spikes ripped out of them after 3 days of granite at Dubbo in Australian 3 days. Still wear them, most comfortable O-shoe I have owned. I agree that spikes give you more grip in the wet and that greater degree of confidence!

Does anyone ever use XC flats or spikes or are they durable enough?

Aside from price, why would anyone not run in O shoes? OK--not durable, but what if the price per mile were the same?

To me, there is no contest. I think metal studs are great.

Metal studs in the Inov8s were not so well engineered, unfortunately.

Joe - I orienteered only 3 or 4 times this year, and the first 2 ended up in multiple weeks of not being able to run properly due to bone bruising on my hips. If there is wet rock all over the ground, and you don't want to step on any of it, you pretty much have no choice but to walk.
Even when I raced every weekend for the season I never destroyed a pair of shoes inside a year (and I didn't start wearing them till my feet had stopped growing)

As for X country spikes, I've never used them, but I know at least one person who swears by them.

my experience with O shoes is that they will last about 6 races before something fails. either the dobbs fall out or the sole delaminates or the uppers wear through. at $120 a pair that is too much per KM. yes metal studs are great, but not entirely necessary for 80% of the time you are running. the studs actually hurt my feat more than help them. the lack of support is also an issue with my arch. I orienteered over 3 dozen times this year and my feet just cant handle the limited support of O shoes. and I am not a foreigner to wet rock - we have plenty of it here in CT, but I have sacrificed running fast for running safe and I don't think I am losing much time due to my choice of shoe. It's knowing when and where to run fast.
so my answer to the original post is YES. your results my vary.

Aside from price, why would anyone not run in O shoes?

Comfort.

A few years ago, when I was still running about 60-70 O races per year, I would wear out a pair of O shoes in about a year (without using ductape). If I was killing a pair of shoes after six races, I would not buy that kind of shoe again. (Although a friend of mine once set some sort or record by totally destroying two pairs of O shoes in a single race.)

two pairs of O shoes in a single race

How is that even possible? Did carry a second pair of shoes into the forest with him?

Obviously a special circumstance. She came back to the hash house halfway through a rogaine with her previously brand new shoes in tatters, switched to the second brand new pair, and at the end those were also shredded, held together with huge amounts of ductape. They were a notoriously poor brand of shoes, which at that point were being sold at low prices, two pairs at a time, just to get rid of the old stock. I think she and her partner did very well and won the coed division, though, so it was't all bad.

One could think lightweight racing O shoe should last about as long as road racing flats. Those racing flats are to be used for something like 300 kilometers. That makes15-20 hours. 20 hours is about 15 long O races.

I tried xc flats last spring. Besides falling apart due the rough footing, they provide no protection under the arch. Running through rocky ground, sticks, brush - perilous. Nice and light though, and cheap. Had to stitch up a big hole in the side after the second run.

I actually think O shoes are comfortable, or at least not bad. And if they prevent a wipeout, I'm more than willing to live with that.

I have cross country flats I will use for grassy/paved sprints, but really try to keep them out of rocks.

I saw that Gabe Svobodny has the same kind, although mine are sans spikes.

I tried without spikes and they were hopeless. Put the shorty spikes in and they were ok. Fine on grass or track but not rocky woods.

Anyone tried this method?

http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

kupackman: Yes, I've tried that and I'm a big believer in screw shoes! At least for what they're intended for, which is running on ice and hard packed snow.

I've also worn them orienteering and I find they are helpful there, but since I haven't worn O shoes in a long long time (my feet need far more support than they provide), I can't compare screw shoes to O shoes. But the screw shoes provide excellent traction on wet logs (as an example); I think they're also helpful on fairly hard-packed wet ground, but I don't think they offer much if any help on true muddy ground. I can't speak to what their traction would be on rocks.

o-shoes FTW at O-ringin 2007. It was flooded and super muddy, no other type of shoe would have held up so well. They dont suck up water as much as any other shoe and clean up real quick
Iv got Icebug MR2 as well and have had a few of the studs come out. Bit dissapointing but there are more stubds in comparison to other makes lthough the studs are smaller, i believe the reason was they were developed for running in slippery/icey conditions rather than for O exclusivly
Iv found O shoes very good on both mossy and dry rock but the dry rock is what tends to rip the studs out in my experience

Olav Lundanes used 7 pair of o-shoes in his last year...
Brukte o-sko på konkurransar: 7 (VJ Supra, Icebug Spirit OLX, Inov-8 X-Talon 212, VJ Supra Spike, Inov-8 F-Lite 230, VJ Integrator og Asics DS Racer)
http://www.olavlundanes.com/news0032.asp

He raced in them, he didn't run them ragged

...and the Inov8 X-Talon 212 aren't exactly your typical sturdy orienteering shoes- they're super-lightweight fell runners

...and my X-Talon 212's have held up just as well (better?) as a pair of Integrators, while being approximately 5,917 times more comfortable. Bonus: they make me feel fast.

yeah, I'm with Cristinah on this one. I'd be willing to buy a new pair of X-talon 212s every 3 months but I've been happily surprised to discover that they are holding up better than any shoe I've ever worn before.

Wow - never would have guessed that. Are the uppers likely to survive (around the instep in particular) with much granite orienteering? I need to get a pair (or three) of new O shoes as I hope to get back into it this year and my last pair (bought in 2002) are now in the bin :(

fletch lots of people are using the x-talons for orienteering, and they are ok on granite, as long as it's not really wet. Probably the reason they are holding up well is that the uppers don't appear to have any internal stiffening or padded bits, which in other shoes invariably end up poking through the outer or inner linings.

Are the Talons holding up better than the 330 O's?

My talons have held up well in 6 mon of steady use. Sticky sole is good on rock and wet rock. Have 330s also but seldom wear them due clompy feel and are slick on wet. Nearly slid into a stream Tues.

Good on wet rock with no metal studs?? I'm intrigued...

Some of Inov-8's shoes are made with a "Sticky Rubber Compound", described in their technical features sections as "our exclusive sticky rubber compound which has been specially developed using climbing rubber technology. This rubber optimizes grip in wet conditions, however the trade off is it wears down quicker."

I would say that I've found the sticky rubber to be great on wet pavement and good on bare rock. But it's not going to help with slimy rock (obviously). Luckily we don't have too many slimy rocks in Arizona.

I can't speak for Inov-8's sticky rubber compound (my Mudclaws don't use it, to my knowledge) but my Salomon Speedcross shoes have something very similar: "Winter Contagrip"--which is a soft, sticky rubber compound.

It is great on rocks, and for a rubber shoe, good on wet rocks. Until it isn't. And it is dreadful on wet logs, as I am pretty sure Inov-8s would be.

Nothing compares to metal studs on wet rocks and wet logs. But, we all make trade-offs I suppose.

Inov8 doesn't advertise the Roclite 320's as a wet surface shoe but I have found them to be great on wet rock, logs, grass, etc (except slimy rock).

The 2-part epoxy repair on the tread didn't hold as well as I'd have liked though. Ordered a new pair and am thinking about turning the old pair into screw-shoes for icy conditions.