Discussion: Orienteer v's orienteerer

Hi Folks,
Please can people help me with this debate!
Which one are you, and why?

If you check the dictionary, you'll find that "orienteerer" is not a word. I've never heard anyone use the term.

The verb is 'to orienteer', therefore adding a suffix like -er normally gives a noun meaning soneone who does or is invovled with something; eg. to teach --> teacher.
Maybe it even should be orienteeror as in actor or inventor?
If you consider the verb 'to wash-up' the noun becomes 'washer-upper' but I think that would be taking it to far to add x2 -er!

I think the grammatically correct form would be "orienteerer", but it sounds really stupid and is, therefore, never used. (Consider "enterer", "preferer", "lingerer", "balterer".....)

My dictionary (Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate) defines "orienteer" as "a person who engages in orienteering". What's interesting is that it has no verb definition, although Microsoft's online Encarta dictionary indicates it can be used as a verb (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/orienteer.html)

But I think there could be a "balterer." The apparent awkwardness of that term in contrast with the elegance of "Balter" serves to emphasize that all those who attempt to balter without the quiddity, so to speak, stumble clumsily. They become like stutterers, babbling in a stilted manner, worthy, if not of derision, of at least sincere pity.

I never use the term "orienteer" as a verb. Instead I'll say, "I am orienteering."

Boris is right, except that the word is not 'never' used (mindsweeper used it on this very discussion board not three days ago).

Eric, when you say "I am orienteering", don't you use "orienteer" as a verb, just in a different form?? (Like "I am shooting" or "I am swimming" or "I am steering" -> steer is definitely a verb there, not a noun....unless)

I've actually read and heard people use the term "orienteerer," which sound ridiculous to me. However, after doing a seach on Google it appears the same linguistic conflict exists for mountaineer vs. mountaineerer.

I have not yet even once balterered today. But I may do so, if my pizza sumptioness levels gets risen enough.

I think, in an important discussion such as this it is essential that we look to our President for insight. Was it not just a couple days ago that he stated emphatically the he is "The Decider." Maybe in his case the "deciderer" would be even better.

Boris, yes, but the point is I never use it in the form "orienteer", I always use the form "orienteering" which distinguishes it from the noun "orienteer." And I shall continue in this usage until the deciderer tell me otherwise (and even then I'll likely not listen).

when you say "I am orienteering", don't you use "orienteer" as a verb, just in a different form??

You're using it as a gerund, or verbal noun, which is actually a noun formed from a verb. It's a state of being, not an action.

Oxford lists orienteer as both a noun (giving as an example "Furthermore, Swedish orienteers bled their way into medical history a few years ago following an epidemic of the disease." Not sure what "the disease" refers to here) and as a verb. Interestingly, the verb listing has both a transitive and intransitive usage. I definitely have never heard anyone say they orienteered their map.

To answer the original question, I think orienteerer sounds as silly as orientate.

As a matter of fact all people above are baltering :)

Maybe, but are they balterering?

bshields said, "Not sure what "the disease" refers to here"

Not to hijack the thread but the disease was Hepatitis B. The current theory is that the disease was transmitted when a bunch of orienteers used the same bucket of water to rinse off their bloody arms and legs. It was a big shocker when it happened. Afterwards, at least in Sweden, I believe organizers were required to provide shower facilities after an event and competitors were required to wear clothing that covered their arms and legs

1) The hepatitis incident was prior to, and separate from, the 1993 "TWAR" scare, which may well have actually been EPO.

2) "Orienteer" is the word to describe the person, analogously to "pioneer". The people in the covered wagons were not "pioneerers".

3)
>> when you say "I am orienteering", don't you use
>>"orienteer" as a verb, just in a different form??
> You're using it as a gerund, or verbal noun, which
> is actually a noun formed from a verb. It's a state
> of being, not an action.

No, not a gerund. In this case, it's a participle, assuming you mean "I am participating in an orienteering activity". You could say the above sentence such that "orienteering" would be a gerund, but then it would mean something along the lines of, "I embody the entire sport of orienteering". ("I AM orienteering!")

The OED reference was from October 30, 1971. Having no knowledge of what it was referring to, and taking it out of context, I briefly thought they were insinuating that orienteering was a disease.

Maybe not orienteering, but Baltering could be. Or certainly a chronic condition.

Notice this topic was cross-posted this to nopesport at the same time - with 21 comments compared to nopesport's 17 currently, it looks like AP is winning the Battle of the Boards. :-)

My take is that it's not that "we orienteer", but that "we orient our maps while running in the forest" therefore we are "orient-eers of maps."

The sport really should be called orienting. Or maybe something flasher like Extreme Navigating or Navsport.

I like the inclusion of "Extreme" but it seems to be modifying "Navigating" which sends a mixed message. Maybe along the lines of Full Contact Bingo. The "Full Contact" part is cool, but...

Navsport has a sleekness to it though.

It would be tough to rebrand, or actually rename "orienteering" after all these years, but, given the sports recognition by the public, such a drastic action might not be beyond the pale.

It seems to me that most of us - orienteers orienteer very well in realm of English language. This discussion shows me that some of AP members are bored to death at their respective whereabouts and can not wait till this weekend, so they can go and orienteer in rain, snow or shine.

And leave Swedes alone - that was a virus in early 90’s were several elite runners died from heart failure (one from Russia, too – he never used EPO, I knew him)

I liked "orienteerer" long ago, and even engaged in a similar discussion to this, probably 10 years ago... Hmmm... Google just found a post by me using the word orienteerer in 1993...

At some point though, someone (was it JJ?) told me that I was an engineer, not an engineerer, so I changed to using 'orienteer'. FWIW, Google has 607 references to "orienteerer", and 166,000 for "orienteer".

Google finds two pages using both orienteerer, mountaineer and engineer: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2C... (and will soon find a third...)

Once I have started balterering, I have never felt much the same. It is as I have entered a different world, on a different plane. I miss muchly the snapping of the jaws on nothingness air as the attack badger has just missed my calf. I will be home again soon.

Why don't we rebrand to "Extreme" or "NavWild" or something. Earlier today I discovered that the game I once knew simply as "frisbee" has been totally changed to "Ultimate"!!!! No descriptors, no indication of the game or the realm of play - just Ultimate! And I remember it when it had barely evolved from a pie plate at Dartmouth. How time (and frisbees) flies.

It did go through an intermediate 'Ultimate frisbee' stage in the development of its nomenclature.

Is there a sport that attracts a bigger cult-like status than Ultimate? I don't know where that sport came from, but it's exploded here in Ottawa and people are drawn in, and don't escape for years. It's the unofficial (well maybe rather official) mating scene for civil servants and it big enough that the Ultimate league is buying property to turn into "ultimate" fields.
Anything know if the powers that be behind Ultimate did anything to facilitate this? Or would it have shocked them as much as everyone else?

Go to their website -- www.upa.org -- and you'll see a sport with an amazing organization behind it.

I seem to recall a certain thread about Orienteers being weird...
YOu guys ARE weird. If anyone else other than an o-er or o-eer reads this, rest assure they will never try the sport.
And BTW, I would have to say that ultimate is the only other sport I have ever seen where their attire actually rivalises with our silk pyjamas!

Just to return this thread back to sensible things after Barbie's distracting comment: all these comments about baltering read like a Latin grammar exercise. For example, depending on your optimism about pizza, you could say:

nondum hodie balteratus sum. fortasse balterabo, si pizzae sumptuositas sufficit.

Or a more pessimistic 'Swampfox could utter:

nondum hodie balteratus sum. forsitan balterem, si pizzae sumptuositas sufficiat.

The verb 'balterare' is of course semi-deponent. baltero, balterare, balteratus sum.

Since the English word orienteering comes from the Swedish orientering, meaning orientation, then there are really no rules. I prefer 'orienteer' to 'orienteerer' because the latter sounds awkward.

Perhaps we should have named our sport 'Orientation' (as the French, Italians and Spanish have done), or 'Orientation Running' (after the Germans). Then we could have called ourselves 'orientators' or 'orientation runners'.

How many times have you heard it said that English is the weirdest language?

Hm... orientation. Yeah. You'd be then prohibited within 200 yards of schools, playgrounds, churches, bus stops, and day care facilities, at least in the American South, if you confirmed you "practiced orientation".

How about we change the name to " Extremely Ultra Wicked Awesome Forest Sprinting and Flag Crushing Death Match in a Steel Cage-eering" ? It comes form the Swedish word for "extreme as a sport moniker is weak".

Why don't we just make sure everybody in the world knows what orienteering is? After all, "golf" and "tennis" are pretty goofy words too - we don't think about it because we know a little about the sports, even if we never played them ourselves. Without consulting Wikipedia do you know where those names came from? Do you care?

"tennis" is probably related to "attention" (I don't know the French for attention, but I imagine its all related). My uneducated guess is that "golf" isn't related to much (tho my Scottish is even weaker than my French).

Of course I care. I'm a geek :-)

BTW, I've always preferred the name "map racing". Seems to better shake that pace and compass exercises at camp image some people have when I say "orienteering".

After being tossed out by a ref in the playoff game between the Lakers & the Suns yesterday, Kobe Bryant said

"He didn't like my toneage, if that's a word. He's the decider. Is that a word, decider?"

(BTW, "toneage" isn't a word in my dictionary)

Okay, most of you have probably stopped reading by now: but there are also the cultural/national language differences to consider. North Americans tend to 'orient' their maps, while Brits 'orientate' them. When in doubt, the Brits always seem to go for the extra syllable (aluminum vs aluminium and so on). I like the NA keep it simple plan: and thus I vote that I am an orienteer.