Discussion: Maps: Bagged vs Waterproof

I've always had a preference for maps in plastic bags (sealed is an added bonus) because they handle easily and stay readable over the whole run. Last year, I did several events which featured maps printed on "waterproof" paper, which don't fold very well (IMHO) and can lose their ink - as seen during the Xmas 5-days just finished. And then there is nowhere to stash your splits printout afterwards.

What is the general opinion on what seems to be a trend towards waterproof paper?

The best argument I have seen for waterproof paper maps was a stack of 6000 maps waiting to be bagged for a major event like a World Masters Waterproof paper was used at the recent World Championships, so I assume others are convinced it can work with offset printing. The challenge is to get the right choice of paper and ink for small run digital printing.

Assuming there's a full stop between Masters and Waterproof in the above comment? My main concern with waterproof is that the printing's not always uniform (can fade) throughout a print run. Does take me back to the 80s when Wallaringa had a number of maps which were made of plastic - these would all have been offset printed.

I've always been impressed by the material the Swiss use, but I'm not sure what it is (can anyone enlighten us). I've never had any trouble with the ink fading on these, and that has included some very severe tests indeed (like the storm responsible for the infamous flash flood at the 1996 World Cup race).

I prefer paper - but covering both opinions I think the solution used at O-ringen in Sälen last year (yeah, in 2008) works OK too. They provided the maps on 'waterproof' paper but also had plastic map cases available at the start - so every competitor that wanted to could take one and put the map in on their own after their start time...
Naturally saves a lot of work for the organizers - but not money since they both have to pay for more expensive maps and the map cases. I don´t know how many actually used the map cases - I did so every day - but that should be taken into consideration when deciding if it´s worth the trouble/money or not.

At ORingen last year I seem to recall a number of permutations: paper sealed in bag, paper unsealed in bag, waterproof without bag, and waterproof in bag (I forgot whether it was sealed or not.)

The waterproof paper used was very nice. For earlier discussion of waterproof paper, take a look at these threads:

http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...
http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...

i took a map that had already been used once on day 2 of the five days for another run.. i had no problems with any ink running off or anything like that and was still in perfect condition after the 2 runs.. ive used waterproof paper in europe in 2006 and had no problems... i think for organisers sanity waterproof paper is the go.

The one big problem with waterproof paper is mud. At all Swiss events I've been, without exception, I had to put up with an unreadable map until a water stop.

Of course, for organizers' sanity and a reasonable financial tradeoff, a good solution would include selling plastic map cases of appropriate size at the event center before the races.

And charge for cups at water stops, too, I suppose.

I think that having to buy a 15-cent item at a meet would piss me off to the point I wouldn't ever return. Entry fees should be set to cover the costs of disposable items used at the meet, even if they are optional. Going ultra-cheap to keep entry fees down is a very short-sighted strategy. Nobody remembers whether they paid $22 or $25 dollars to enter a race. They do remember the experience of being there. Spending a few more bucks to make sure that experience is favorable is money well spent.

That's not to say that a meet can't be both no-frills and an excellent experience, but the quality of the map (and preservation of that quality) is absolutely integral to the event and worth devoting some resources.

15¢ ?? The Chicago Club charges $1 for a plastic map case. The club wanted to reduce the amount of plastic trash entering the environment. Now a surprising number of people pull an old map case from their pocket at the start line...or run without.

REDUCE REUSE REPAIR RECYCLE

I really enjoyed the job of pin pricking 1000 sealed map bags for the 2002 WMOC carnival. Up till then, that was one organising task that wasn't even on my radar! A thimble would have been really useful.

While a nice idea and simpler preparation the waterproof paper used in a couple of maps I've run with in Australia has had the print rub off creating large areas of blank - at the recent Xmas 5-days it was brilliant on the dry day and abysmal on the wet day 4. I still have some Swiss waterproof paper maps that were sturdy enough to withstand falling on, mud and rain. Is it it better paper or better printing? Or both?

The (highly) water resistant paper used at this year's Oringen (and at several other European events) is called "pretex", and it is made by the German company Neenah Lahnstein. It is OK for use in laser, digital, and offset printers, but it is not OK for use in inkjet printers.

There is no North American distributor for this paper, but with a minimum 5,000 euro (~ $7,000) order, not including shipping, it can be ordered directly from the company. For 5K euro, you'd get 700kg of cut to order sheets; this corresponds to almost 6000 meters squared, or if you want to think about 12 x 18 inch sheets, about 40,000 sheets. So the cost per sheet (including shipping) would work out to be about 20 cents per 12x18 sheet.

I'd be interested in knowing of any serious interest on the part of North American clubs for sharing an order of this magnitude. Alternatively, if there's appetite but not on this scale, it should be possible to identify European distributors who would probably be able to sell smaller quantities (at higher per sheet prices).

It would also be great to hear from people who have experience using pretex paper for O'maps, especially vs Teslin and other synthetic alternatives.

I heard or read somewhere that organizers from Scandinavia also print maps at print companies in Eastern European countries for larger events. I suppose that they get help from their foreign club mates to make good arrangements.

I have had chance to try another synthetic paper which called Yupo. 2times at our (Slovenian races) and works very well: no problem with mud, water, folding (no problem with ink) but a little more when you want to make a fold.

I'm wondering if anyone knows about clubs who already did this kind of order or how much are the total costs with shipping in this case.

Using waterprrof paper and no bags significantly reduces the work load for the organisers, It is also better than a bagged map with a small amount of trapped air, which can be difficult to fold. Only thing is to get the printing right. Ones at the Oz champs seemed to be OK was this year's vic champs, just not the day 4 map from the 5 days. The other key factor, regardless of what material the amp is printed on, is getting the colours right. For the xmas 5 days tehre were 5 different variations of colour!

The Chicago Club charges $1 for a plastic map case.

That doesn't make it a $1 item - it just makes it an overpriced 15-cent item. I'm all for reusing map cases in training; I typically get a half dozen sessions out of one. However, for competition, anything that compromises readability (including an old case) is unacceptable.

Thanks for the heads up, though. I'll be sure to bring my own new map case to the next CAOC meet I attend.