Discussion: Online Armchair O

Let's try this:

http://www.routegadget.net/ao/cgi-bin/reitti.cgi

Step 1. Click the ( i ) icon. I wrote there some instructions.
Step 2. Draw how you would run. There is two courses. You'll have to type some sort of result time (like 5000).
Step 3. Compare routes. Think why someone did not take the same route you did.

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If you see any point doing this, we can have second round, new map and new courses. And some of you can be the next course setter, I'll get map image somewhere if the next course setter is not able to post any maps.

(I do not have much disk space on the server, but we can have couple of test rounds before I'll run out of quota.)

Fun!

It has value! Please continue!

Wanted: Course setter for AO Round 2.
- I'll send instructions how courses are drawn (it's done with browser and it takes only some minutes)
- If needed, I (=my o-club) can provide a map

I'm happy to do it.

OK, you are the next course setter. Let as know when you are done. Will we need head lights?

Ok, I put up a course on part of OK Linne's clubhouse map, which I took a picture of. The quality isn't bad, but could be better, so I apologize.
The course is mostly long legs, since those are more fun to plan routes on. I'll put up another course tomorrow when I am less brain-dead.
Have fun!

Map notes: the marshes tend to be runnable; the "rough open"/yellow dotted stuff is awful; disappearing trails are visible, but not easy to keep track of; the light green sucks; white woods are fast.

It's really hard to judge how fast the trails are vs. white or green from the airmchair. :)

How about round III? Hammer?

If I can figure out how to do it I will post the elite men's classic course from the 1999 Eastern Canadian Champs at Hilton Falls. Hilton Falls borders the 2006 NAOC Middle and Long Distance map to the south. Contour interval is 2.5m, scale 1:10,000. Micro route choices to avoid rock are worth it. The open rock symbol is actually rocky ground on the map I will post (again if I can figure it out).

There it is now.

Rocky ground? Well, I took Finnish style bare rock choices anyway, I hope I didn't broke my ankle.

So this is an old event? So some of you can draw two routes, the one ran and how they should have run it.

Course setters for round IV? Or shall I put there something / call it a day?

I'll do it if you tell me how!

Ok, I put up the Trossachs map. I'm not sure which event this is from, but the course and terrain look cool. I hope to run on this map someday!

Tick "course off" because you start drawing your routes or else the double set of circles and lines will get too confusing and also obscure small features.

The extra course is now hidden.

Latest round has very interesting course and wonderful map! Thank you Kat!

Round V with two courses is now available.

Note:
- Click "Photos" - checkbox on and you'll get tiny camera icons on the map. By clicking them you can open photos taken from that spot.
- You can now compare leg distances (as drawn in pixels, viewed under splits. Also rounds I-IV)

Tough courses last time!

"Photos" feature is very interesting! Especially, I liked the photo taken in the lake :) Somewhat useful as gives vegetaion and some stone features sense at least. What really would be useful is panoramic photo of the control with magnetic reference superimposed so you can rotate it as though standing in the middle.

Interesting round V, Jagge.

Out of curiosity, how do you folks decide on your route choices? Do you think about which route elite orienteers would probably take or which route would be fastest (best) for you personally to take? I find that when looking at maps and deciding on route choices, I sometimes see two options: what I would do (given my physical and navigational limitations) and what someone stronger/better than me would do.

For example, I have a tendency to mess up the first control, and therefore prefer to take a very safe route choice to #1, to give me time to look at the map and adjust to the scale, woods, etc. An elite orienteer would take a more direct route choice. Also, although in the beginning I might take decently straight routes, towards the end I will want to avoid climbing hills if I can go around. And after an hour out in the woods, it would be faster for me to run on trails/flat open forest rather than trek through swamps or fight through the green. So towards the end I will take safer route choices (because the risk of making a mistake is greater due to tiredness) and go around rather than straight if it is physically/mentally easier.

I select routes based on my experience for this specific type of terrain and my current fitness. I also try to immitate competition conditions. For example, for me most difficult part is middle of course where I tend to loose my concentration so I try to use more safe routes there. As well as more toward the end of the course.

There´s really more than one 'correct answer' to this question. Your own (and Sergey´s) personal reflections are of course important once you´re out there, but in my opinion it´s always good to try to find the 'elite choice' in Armchair O even if you don´t feel up to exactly those standards IRL so to speak.
Of course in the end it´s a matter of training to get to that point (i.e. to the elite level) even out in the forest, but there are many possible ways to achieve this - armchair O being one of them...
If you start to think orienteering 'the elite way' you´ll eventually get more familiar with it even out in the forest and slowly get to the point where you´re interested in actually trying even the hard way sometimes.

I try to select routes based on my experience, although sitting in a chair I don't feel any effects of physical exhaustion, which would probably affect my route choice when actually running a race. The end result of this might be a more 'elite route' than I would attempt while in the woods...

If my goal is to minimize time on the leg, I try to pick the route I feel I can execute fastest, regardless of if the elite would find a different route faster. Having relatively strong quads, and being otherwise relatively slow, this often means over or thru terrain in some over vs around decisions, for just one example.

If my goal is training, I may take what I feel is a slower route, if I feel there will be a return on investment down the road on the training,

I rarely take a slower, easier route early, figuring that that investment will be returned later in the race in terms of reading ahead or saving myself for the end, not because I think this notion is silly, but because I am not great at reading ahead, nor great at calculating the cost vs the return on this investment. That said, many good orienteers to this, so it is worth considering if it fits your style, and worth training if it doesn't.

I almost always take the more navigationially complex route if, I feel on perfect execution, it can be executed faster than a simpler route. I again view this as an economic problem where you have to weigh the probability of a boom and the penalty of a boom against the cost of the easier, yet slower route. I don't claim to be good at this calculus, but it is certainly more fun to take the risky route (for me), and has training value that will be returned in the long run. That said, at the end of a good race, I often try to take the simpler route. This may sound stupid, and it probably is, but that's what I do.

I also often think, both during the race, and during armchair post race review, "what would eddie do". I guess this is the "what are the elite doing" question. The purpose of this mantra is to remind myself not to miss possible routes.

I'm not all that good at route choice, so you may want to ignore all i've written ...

Randy,

Ignored :)

Any new courses?

If no one has any particular courses to put up, then perhaps we can just put up maps from past important races? For example, we can put up maps from previous world champs, world cups, and other big events. Also, if anyone has maps of areas that we will be racing on in the future (such as the Billygoat, US Team Trials, Tiomila, etc.), then they can design some courses on the maps and put them up on routegadget for practice. The best way to study a map (other than actually running on it) is to plan courses for it and then analyze routes.