in: Orienteering; News;
| # Posted 2008-05-20 06:16:59 | |
| urthbuoy: | A controversial decision by CAS to allow Oscar Pistorius, the double-amputee sprinter from South Africa, to compete in able-bodied races against able-bodied runners.
The media release. Some discussion on the result. The concern is that this guy is fast and arguably has a 30% advantage with his prosthetics. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 11:03:54 | |
| lazydave: | yeah big decision. He still needs to drop his pb by .8sec for a qualifying time though he could be in the 4x400m team. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 14:08:07 | |
| birdman: | Normally I'm all for letting anyone have a go at anything, overcoming adversity and all that, but... perhaps the ruling should have been that Oscar can compete against able bodied runners so long as he uses prosthetics that mimic human biomechanics, rather than other faster running animals. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 16:53:51 | |
| jjcote: | His legs may be short, but he got some good shoes. Clap skates, skin suits, butterfly stroke — similar things have happened before. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 18:35:14 | |
| urthbuoy: | I think part of the concern is that it was a poor "science"-based decision. The science was not fully disclosed as it seems there is some $ behind wanting this decision. CAS seemed ill-prepared to deal with this issue and some lawyers leveraged that.
As to equipment developments mentioned by jjcote, that is available to all. Arguably, being a double-amputee with carbon fibre prosthetics isn't. Though, it could be, and that is one of the ethical issues. All around, this seems a slippery slope. Both in allowing mechanical aids (for lack of a better term) in sports, and in the debate not stepping on human rights. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 21:16:43 | |
| jjcote: | I bet somebody could develop boots that would attach to the leg of an able-bodied runner and give the same mechanical action, though Pistorius would still have the advantage of not having the weight of the lower leg to transport. (I wonder if there are any other events where an amputee would be at an advantage by not having the weight of a body part that is not used in that sport. Does a marathon runner need arms?) |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 23:24:35 | |
| levitin: | Arms are useful, and arms can be detrimental to efficiency. Required? Hmmm.
Running commentators note sometimes if a runner's arm carriage is un-economical. Arms are used for pumping up a hill. The young Chinese marathoner, Sun Ying-jie (?), when she first competed in Boston, stood out as having an unorthodox arm carriage: arms almost fully extended, down near her thighs, not bent near 90 degrees. To her benefit, she has run much faster races than that first year when she led for the first few miles. But, if you are considering benefit-to-mass ratio like some cross between Dr. Frankenstein and professional cyclists, I am not sure which option you would end find leads to faster marathon times. J-J, would you agree that sprinters benefit from having arms? Look at the upper bodies of the Olympian 100m runners: huge. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 23:48:47 | |
| jjcote: | I'm not sure whether their arms are big because they need them, or if that's just a side effect of either the general physique required to excel, or some aspect of the training. But there's a reason why I picked distance rather than sprint, though. If nothing else, arms may be essential for balance in some sports, and that seems more likely in an explosive sprint than a marathon.
The one sport where it seems obvious that there would be a an advantage to having amputated (or atrophied) limbs is wheelchair racing. I don't know whether able-bodied people are banned from that, or if they're just hopeless. |
| # Posted 2008-05-20 23:53:50 | |
| RichardLund: | Did you see that Natalie du Toit, another South African amputee, has qualified for the Olympic games in the 10km Open Water event?
Whatever the technical merits of Oscar's case, both of them are examples of human spirit overcoming huge odds. |
| # Posted 2008-05-21 05:26:02 | |
| stevegregg: | One sport where there is a clear advantage to having no legs is bench press! Many years ago I'm sure I remember reading something about a competitive weight-lifter who lost both his legs in an automobile accident, and all of a sudden went from an above-average but not elite competitor to a world record holder, since he was able to move down quite a few weight classes due to losing his legs.
While Googling this in an attempt to refresh my memory, I did discover that the International Powerlifting Federation has already decided how to handle this situation. I found this in the IPF official rulebook: Disabled/Amputee lifters who are competing in bench press championships will have the following additions to their bodyweight: For each below ankle amputation = 1/54 of bodyweight For each below knee amputation = 1/36 of bodyweight For each above knee amputation = 1/18 of bodyweight For each hip disarticulation = 1/9 of bodyweight Will other sports soon need to develop similar rules of competition?? |
| # Posted 2008-05-21 06:32:45 | |
| fossil: | Does a marathon runner need arms?
It's an awfully long way to run without a drink. |
| # Posted 2008-05-21 07:59:15 | |
| dave_k: | does the ruling state that the prosthetic is part of him? if not, what prevents anyone from developing/wearing something similar.
The CAS has opened a pandoras box. Just think of high jump, long jump, pole vault, with a pair of those spring boards on. Nike could imbed them into their shoes, who needs gel anymore! Just for fun: Here's the recipe to not only break the 2 hr marathon barrier, but cut it down to an hour. Train at altitude, blood dope, pound down some EPO, lash on your carbon fiber running boards, lop off your arms, and run like hell! |
| # Posted 2008-05-21 19:27:00 | |
| Gil: | So what that Oscar Pistorius might be going to Olympics. So what that any other disabled athletes are trying to compete with able bodied athletes.
I am sure that by now Oscar knows that his prosthetics are viewed as an unfair advantage by many and I would leave up to his conscience to continue with his dream. As far as I am concerned - I would not allow to cut off even my pinky-toe to participate in Olympics. Count your blessings, guys! |
| # Posted 2008-05-22 03:06:33 | |
| fossil: | does the ruling state that the prosthetic is part of him? if not, what prevents anyone from developing/wearing something similar.
Effectively, yes: "The CAS Panel has emphasised that the scope of application of this decision is limited to the eligibility of Oscar Pistorius only and, only, to his use of the specific prosthesis in issue in this appeal. It follows that this decision has no application to the eligibility of any other athletes or any other model of prosthetic limb." |
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