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Discussion: Club competition

in: BorisGr; BorisGr > 2019-11-03

Nov 4, 2019 2:25 PM # 
Canadian:
How does it work? Based on what you've written in your log, I'm wondering if that's something worth replicating.
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Nov 4, 2019 7:13 PM # 
j-man:
Great seeing you as well! I'm always impressed by the QOC bus, and the VA-Moose is quite appealing. Nice running, and notwithstanding the error(s), you were moving well!
Nov 4, 2019 11:22 PM # 
jtorranc:
The format and scoring are explained in detail on the SVO web site, assuming the advance info hasn't disappeared now that the event is past.
Nov 4, 2019 11:27 PM # 
Gswede:
Honestly, this is one of my favorite events also. Is it strange to say that Mid Atlantics feels more important to me than our national championship?
Nov 5, 2019 12:03 AM # 
JLaughlin:
I find this interesting, since this is the first year I have ever even heard of it. (Though I don't live in the area)
Nov 5, 2019 12:08 AM # 
jtorranc:
Okay, it appears it has disappeared. Fortunately, the format was the same and the scoring almost the same as last year when QOC hosted - https://www.qocweb.org/events/2018/12/9/seneca-cre....
Nov 5, 2019 1:14 AM # 
BorisGr:
Here is a slightly cleaner explanation (back by popular demand): http://www.furlong47.com/svo/midatlantics.html

I think the relay format is just excellent. If we are to bring back US Relay Champs, I would strongly advocate for such a format or similar, with a single competitive class, but time handicaps based on points. The top nine teams finished within six minutes, and included five 6-point teams, three 9-point teams, and one 3-point team.

Also, strategy mattered a ton: if DVOA had put Kirsten on their team with Wyatt and GSwede instead of Balter, they would have crushed us, as Kirsten was the same speed as Balter on the short yellow leg, but would have brought a seven minute bonus with her.
Nov 5, 2019 1:16 AM # 
BorisGr:
Gswede>> I don't think it's strange. There is something very special about racing for a club or team, and we have very few opportunities to experience it in U.S. orienteering. NAOC is a fantastic example of that, which is why it's always a huge highlight of my calendar. I also really, really think that Interscholastics should have a relay component to them for the same reasons.

On a similar note, does DVOA want a Jukola rematch in 2020? CSU will be there.
Nov 5, 2019 1:30 AM # 
Cristina:
Relays are such a great way to make people feel like they matter. So many Nordic club runners train just because of the relays. They know they'll never represent their country at WOC but they might be able to make their club's first team, and they can be part of a club accomplishment that everyone in the club is proud of.
Nov 5, 2019 9:46 PM # 
jtorranc:
@Canadian - obviously you need to have two or more clubs in reasonable proximity for a one day club competition like this to work. An Ottawa-Montreal dual meet might work. For competitive balance, maybe lumping Ramblers and Azimut Laurentides together for scoring purposes.

I know DVOA and HVO have a recurring dual meet, though I've never looked into whether it is structured as a formal interclub competition. Is it possible the Mid-Atlantics are unique in the US, or even in North America, in this regard?
Nov 5, 2019 11:48 PM # 
Canadian:
@jtorranc, yes clearly.

Ottawa-Montreal could work. So could including it in the Ontario Champs. I wonder how much it would matter that Ottawa is so much stronger than every other club with the possible exception of DGL.
Nov 6, 2019 12:03 AM # 
cwalker:
There's the Pig War race between GVOC and COC.

http://cascadeoc.org/pig-war/
Nov 6, 2019 1:00 AM # 
DarthBalter:
I was thinking of starting North American Club Championships on alternative year with NAOC, with venue close to border, so it would bring more Canadian club members. Format: Middle, Relays and Long (shorter version, aka "classic") - 3 days.
Just need broader feedback.

@Canadian: Ramblers has good power and growing, you should try it. Talk to Dmitri, he is always looking for new ideas, and ready to work.
Nov 6, 2019 1:05 AM # 
GuyO:
The HVO-DVOA Dual Event alternates hosting club, and uses a scoring system based on respective performances by declared club members on standard White-Red (sometimes White-Blue) courses. It does not include a relay.
Nov 6, 2019 2:21 PM # 
Hammer:
I absolutely love this relay format. One category makes so much sense. Following the discussion of a split NAOC I like the idea of more (all forest) race weekends consisting of middle, relay and long. (then do the same thing for urban with sprint, knockout and sprint relay).

The Ontario Champs used to be one day individual and one day relay. In the 80's the Ontario Champs was a race on its own and I remember racing in competitions with over 20 teams in the open men's category alone. There also used to be club competitions and trophies but that all disappeared. I think a relay at the Ontario Champs would be exciting and probably would have been easier for organizers this past weekend keeping both Saturday races at the same location.

HKF, Niagara, and Guelph used to have a fall inter-club competition called 'Gathering of the Nuts' and had individual and relay competitions. Ottawa OC's spring "A" meet used to be called the inter-club. Why these disappeared I don't know.

Another format worth considering is team orienteering. Races where teams have to visit controls in a certain order. Some solo, some together. Great strategy. Hubmann brothers race together every fall in the Swiss team-O champs.

The normal "A" meet format with interval start times and huge start draws is not a very social format. The vast majority of the kids we bring into the sport through ARK hate it. But team races and relays and mass start events they love.
Nov 6, 2019 3:16 PM # 
TomN:
When I worked out the scoring for the Mid-Atlantics relay a few years ago, I did some research and concluded that each point is worth 1 minute per k for an individual runner. For 3-person teams and 3-6-9-point classes, this means each class should get a cumulative handicap in minutes equal to the total relay distance in kilometers.

The three relay legs this time totaled 7.5k, so according to my scheme the relay may have been tilted a little bit in favor of the 3s and 6s, who had a slightly shorter handicap than the distance would indicate.

With a few more years of detailed results like SVO presented, we might be able to further refine the handicap numbers and have some faith that they would be fair in national competition.
Nov 7, 2019 3:35 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
Jeff: I was going to say, some old guy like Gord could talk about the Ottawa Inter-Club, but fortunately Hammer has already raised it ;)

TOC also had a 4-Man relay every year that was super fun.

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