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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: West Point Race Analysis

in: Orienteering; General

Apr 2, 2019 4:55 AM # 
Runner99:
Anybody interested in racing at West Point might be interested in this analysis video if you have a spare 15min.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnWpbuHszz4&fe...

Feel free to discuss thoughts on the video or the thread....
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Apr 2, 2019 11:08 AM # 
cmpbllv:
I really like this idea. Thanks for sharing!
Apr 2, 2019 1:09 PM # 
JanetT:
"I'd go straight up a two-contour earthbank instead of finding the intermittent trail that takes you around."

"Everyone else on this leg popped out to a trail (that I didn't see) but I'd still go between the cliffs to be on a straighter line."

Going straight is a great idea ... if the terrain allows. But sometimes it's safer and faster to look for ways around.
Apr 2, 2019 4:01 PM # 
Runner99:
I agree Janet, there were about 2-3 legs here where the trail option was probably better, and especially when the forest is slow. If it is slow say 6:00 min/km, but on a trail you might be able to pull off 4:00 min/km, then you'll save alot of time.

The balance between extra distance / climb and terrain speed is a big factor in a well set course and one like west point.
Apr 2, 2019 6:55 PM # 
MChub:
Good, I wish there were more videos like this when I was a beginner. It may be useful to look at splits with time losses corrected for speed to see how much time was actually lost with each route choice:

https://www.attackpoint.org/racesplits.jsp/race_65...
Apr 3, 2019 12:02 AM # 
anniemac:
I love the format of this presentation, and I wish I felt nice and calm while orienteering like the presenter's voice is! Where can I find the Long analysis that is offered at the end of this vid? I'm getting ready for WP (as a novice orienteer) so I'll take whatever I can get.

The grey patches are bare rock, not hills right?
Apr 3, 2019 12:25 AM # 
Runner99:
@anniemac Yep grey patches are grey rock. They can also be hills if there is a circular or closed line contour around them. I'll post the Long analysis in this thread in a little while...

@MChub I'd like to look at splits in depth more also, i might when I run the west point races and have a really good understanding of all of the legs. I like the GPS tracks, and live feed (if you see some of the other videos on the channel) because you can do a mass start and see who gets there first!

Thanks for the positive comments!! And feel free to share with others going to West Point!
Apr 3, 2019 5:49 PM # 
MChub:
I don't mean using Attackpoint splits instead of GPS tracks, but rather together with them. You can do a mass start and see who comes first, but you don't know the runners' relative speeds. With Attackpoint splits you can see immediately who lost time (brown rectangles) and how much time was lost relative to the runner's own average speed, rather than the best runner on the leg, and then compare to the GPS tracks.
Apr 3, 2019 5:52 PM # 
Runner99:
So you basically mean use the brown rectangles as incorrect route choices / mistakes, and use the GPS tracks to see which one it was?
Apr 3, 2019 11:12 PM # 
MChub:
Yes.
Apr 8, 2019 6:00 PM # 
Runner99:
I am going to post the Long analysis on next Thursday, after my finals.
Apr 10, 2019 1:03 AM # 
anniemac:
@runner99, take your time! You are very busy. But TIA.
Apr 10, 2019 4:24 PM # 
hughmac⁴:
Great thread!

@anniemac: you are not a novice orienteer, by a very long stretch. ;) Way to dive into the data!!
Apr 11, 2019 1:51 AM # 
anniemac:
@hughmac4 don't blow my cover! :) I'm setting low expectations for myself!
Apr 16, 2019 3:16 AM # 
Runner99:
Hey I have a question for people from around west point / organizers. Are the entire areas of the maps we are running on embargoed (i assume they are) and does anyone know if there are any other maps that we can run on in the days before?

I have found Black Rock Forest and Lake Popolopen that have caught my eye. Does anyone know if these would be accessible say Thursday or Friday before the races, or if they are embargoed?
Apr 16, 2019 3:20 AM # 
JanetT:
Probably better to avoid Army property without permission and head to similar terrain in Harriman State Park.
Apr 16, 2019 11:01 AM # 
jjcote:
Technically, the southern reaches of Bull Pond (and Long Mountain) are part of Harriman State Park, but the WOC93 and HVO maps are, as Janet notes, the right choice:
Silvermine
Baileytown
Surebridge
Rockhouse
Pole Brook
Jackie Jones
Sebago
It's all basically the same terrain, as relevant as can be.
Apr 16, 2019 12:35 PM # 
Bridge:
Regarding embargoes: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1cJPX4G5du1...
Apr 16, 2019 4:45 PM # 
Runner99:
Thanks alot for the information everyone!
Apr 19, 2019 6:19 PM # 
Runner99:
A day late, but as promised, the West Point 2011 Long Distance Analysis.



Sorry I couldn't get the routes to show up, and I didn't do split analysis also, maybe on the next one.
Apr 20, 2019 8:38 PM # 
Terje Mathisen:
@Runner99: I liked your WP2011LD analysis! It really gave me a pretty good mental model for what that particular terrain would feel like when running through it. :-)

I do think you made the flattest possible direct route to #4 a bit too ambitious, in reality you should accept one or two extra contours of initial climb while looking for the best micro route choices, and also use that first hill top to your right as an aiming point.
Apr 21, 2019 1:45 AM # 
anniemac:
@Runner99, am watching now. Thanks a bunch!
Apr 21, 2019 10:20 PM # 
Runner99:
@ anniemac No problem!

@Terje Mathisen I think that you are correct about the first half of the leg to 4, its quite hard to hit the edge at the right angle and heading to the hill would probably be safer. I was just worried if you could see the hill top from the bottom of the hill as you are coming up.

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