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Discussion: JWOC 2018

in: Orienteering; General

Jul 8, 2018 1:31 PM # 
Kicks off with the long distance on Monday.

Start list:

Team Canada:
Jul 8, 2018 7:29 PM # 
Ya link broke Hammer. Try this Looks like AdventureGirl! (Emma Waddington) has a GPS which will be very interesting to watch in the crazy terrain they have.

Loving the athlete bios all the teams seem to be doing on Instagram, especially the Canucks. GO CANADA GO!!!
Jul 8, 2018 8:06 PM # 
Here is a complete US/Canada short list

The courses tomorrow will be the longest long courses at a JWOC. Men's course is 15.0 k; 10.2 for the women. Lots of time to enjoy the terrain!

See the old map of Long Terrain

9:54 Julia Doubson
10:06 Diana Aleksieva
11:08 Tyra Christopherson
12:10 Caroline Sandbo
12:44 Siri Christopherson
13:40 Brigitte Bordelon

9:19 David Runde
10:17 Aidan Minto
11:09 Martin Heir (live GPS)
11:53 Thomas Laraia
13:05 Anthony Riley
13:33 Peter Zakrevski

10:24 Sianna Dorsey
10:46 Emma Waddington (live GPS)
13:32 Rachel May

9:13 Graeme Farrand
10:27 Christian Michelsen
11:03 David Bakker
13:01 Tomas Graham
13:17 Jan Erik Naess

Radio-control split times, GPS tracking of selected
competitors and the announcer's voice should be broadcast
online on the event website ( free of charge.
For the long, this should start at 10 am local; Kesckemét is 6 hours earlier than the EDT.
Jul 8, 2018 10:40 PM # 
Team Canada includes a Naess, Graham, Waddington and May. Where have I heard this before?
Jul 8, 2018 11:23 PM # 
Robin Williams - What year is it?
Jul 9, 2018 8:08 AM # 
Long Live Results:

Long Live Feed (only audio rn?):

Long Live GPS:
Jul 9, 2018 9:02 AM # 
I bet a nickle that there is a 50% chance that someone is gonna break 70min for men...
Jul 9, 2018 12:34 PM # 
Amazing run by Jan Erik!
Jul 9, 2018 12:37 PM # 
Wow. Very impressive! Top 20?
Jul 9, 2018 12:37 PM # 
Jan Erik Naess (CAN) currently in 9th and so a top 20 looks very good.
Jul 9, 2018 12:45 PM # 
Jan Erik ... Wow!
Jul 9, 2018 12:47 PM # 
Best North American male JWOC result?
Jul 9, 2018 12:53 PM # 
Best so far: USA - Anton Salmenkyla 29th in the middle (2017); John Frederickson 32nd in the long (2005). Canada - Gabor Lipcsey 32nd in the middle (1998), Peter MacKenzie 32nd in the long (1993).
Jul 9, 2018 12:58 PM # 
@Runner99 - you just won your bet
Jul 9, 2018 1:03 PM # 
Looking like a top 15 now!
Jul 9, 2018 1:16 PM # 


Big time!
Jul 9, 2018 1:28 PM # 
Naess is going to beat Aebersold. that never happened in the 80’s. ;-)
Jul 9, 2018 1:32 PM # 
Not sure he would have gotten Simona, though...
Jul 9, 2018 2:21 PM # 
Hammer - I concur, so fun to see "the next generation"! Fabulous result for Jan Erik. And well done to all. Boy did that terrain look fun, fun, fun!!!
Jul 9, 2018 2:56 PM # 
Terje Mathisen:
@Runner99: Amazing prediction, I didn't think you would know about the fantastic running strength of Kasper Fosser. :-(

He did a mostly clean run, but had one serious wobble so he could have done it in 67-68 min. He still averaged 4:35-4:40 speed which is simply amazing.

From the GPS my club mate Elias Jonsson (and son of serious competitor in M60, Sören Jonsson) seemed to finish in 4th, he was the only one from Norway whom I expected could follow Kasper.

Re. recurring names: Per Fosser was on the Norwegian international team back in the sixties, now he is a member of my Map Commision in Norway. :-)
Jul 9, 2018 3:11 PM # 
Anyone with enough knowledge up for counting? How many of this year's JWOC runners have a parent who once competed for their country?
Jul 9, 2018 3:35 PM # 
So looking at the sprint start list I don't see any Russians.
Jul 9, 2018 3:37 PM # 
Tim C:
@Terje Mathisen. Actual running distance was just under 18km, so Kasper was actually running sub 4'/km average. Pretty insane!
Jul 9, 2018 3:37 PM # 
@Hammer I understand they breached the sprint embargo and got disqualified from competing in the sprint as a result.
Jul 9, 2018 4:05 PM # 
Awesome run by Jan Erik!

Also of note, 5 of 9 Canadian athletes are members of DontGetLost. Rest: 2 Sage, one Calgary and one Ottawa.
Jul 9, 2018 4:06 PM # 
Back in the days of WOC taking place in odd years only, a lot of elite orienteering pregnancies were timed for even years. 1998 was a particularly large crop and I recall thinking at the time that JWOC 2018 could be an unusually strong field.
Jul 9, 2018 4:10 PM # 
@Terje Mathisen I was going to say "someone like Kasper Fosser" but I didn't want to put too much pressure on him :) , and thought others like elias or from other countries had a chance! Also Jan absolutely crushed it!!!! Making Canadian Orienteering history!!!
Jul 9, 2018 4:47 PM # 
Runner99>> Stupid question: why aren't you racing?
Jul 9, 2018 5:11 PM # 
Long story short, I injured my knee and was fixing it until today. Fortunately its fixed so I will be running all the rest of the races! I'll elaborate on my injury more after JWOC.
Jul 9, 2018 5:58 PM # 
Ah, got it. Good luck with the rest of the races!
Jul 9, 2018 7:59 PM # 
With day 1 in the books, here are the North American Tuesday afternoon's sprints in central Keskemét:

14:11 Diana Aleksieva
14:44 Brigitte Bordelon
15:09 Julia Doubson
15:15 Siri Christopherson
16:13 Caroline Sandbo
16:22 Tyra Christopherson

14:05 Peter Zakrevski
14:29 Anthony Riley
14:54 Aidan Minto
15:04 Thomas Laraia
15:58 Martin Heir
16:05 David Runde

14:07 Rachel May
14:50 Sianna Dorsey
16:29 Emma Waddington

14:07 David Bakker
14:21 Jan Erik Naess
15:39 Tomas Graham
15:44 Graeme Farrand
16:31 Michael Svoboda
16:42 Christian Michelsen
Jul 10, 2018 5:07 AM # 
Except maybe in Oz, Blair? Aston is probably the only one in that category. Do you know why Aston and Joseph didn't run the Long?
Jul 10, 2018 5:13 AM # 

6 Russian athletes were caught in the sprint embargo area a few days ago. They were there without the Russian coaches knowledge and the team readily admitted to breaking the embargo rules and the entire team has been disqualified from the sprint and will not be racing today.

I, for one, am glad to see the rule being enforced as too often you hear if rumours of slight violations and nothing is (and often can't because of lack of proof) done about it.
Jul 10, 2018 5:17 AM # 
Jan Erik had a an amazing run and the whole team is super pleased for him. An amazing start for his last JWOC for sure!!

We're excited to see what we can pull out of the bag this afternoon for the sprint. A long long like that followed by the sprint the next day is a super tough way to start off the week. Many on the Canadian team will be going for a short shake out jog this morning to help the legs recover for this afternoon's race.
Jul 10, 2018 12:48 PM # 
On the Sprint live tracking, I don't understand the purple overprinting east of 6 thru 9, some runners appear to go through it, while others seem to go around the block to avoid it.
Jul 10, 2018 1:00 PM # 
Looks like an artificial barrier to force some more interesting route choices. The appearance of people crossing is probably just urban gps issues.
Jul 10, 2018 1:51 PM # 
Last two W20 starters today:

16:29 Emma Waddington
16:30 Simona Aebersold

How long can Emma hold off Simona, and then, how long can she hold on to her?
Jul 10, 2018 2:48 PM # 
Emma in 6th
Jul 10, 2018 2:59 PM # 
Wow Emma! Amazing!!!
Jul 10, 2018 3:05 PM # 
Holy crap! That's awesome!
Jul 10, 2018 3:08 PM # 
Jul 10, 2018 3:22 PM # 
Woohoo! Way to go kiddo!

So awesome to be able to share this with Anton, a few DGL club mates, and the very awesome DontGetLost coach and Canadian team leader, Meghan Rance.

Luckily Meghan knows what to do when it comes to podium finishers (gained that experience with Emily Kemp). ;-)
Jul 10, 2018 3:27 PM # 
YAY, EMMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 10, 2018 3:27 PM # 
Amazing! That's so awesome Emma! You've worked so hard for this!
Jul 10, 2018 3:29 PM # 
AdventureGirl! makes the podium!
Jul 10, 2018 3:30 PM # 
So well deserved
Jul 10, 2018 3:46 PM # 
Impressive results of both Emma and Jan Erik. Congratulations!
Jul 10, 2018 3:51 PM # 
Jul 10, 2018 4:00 PM # 
Way to go Emma!
Jul 10, 2018 4:22 PM # 
So impressive! Bravo!!
Jul 10, 2018 4:23 PM # 
Jul 10, 2018 4:37 PM # 
Go Canada!!
Jul 10, 2018 4:46 PM # 
I'm not surprised
Jul 10, 2018 4:50 PM # 
O Joy:
It was so great watching Emma on gps from the arena and then just behind Simona through the spectator control and finish chute. It was even better seeing her on the podium in the medal ceremony. Congratulations Emma and Jan Erik on your amazing races.
Jul 10, 2018 6:06 PM # 
So so exciting to watch Emma hold off Simona and then stick with her for so long. She has worked so hard and it has been so special to watch her improve over the years.

We are getting a little better at handling the prize ceremonies these days. The first time Emily made the WOC podium I had to go to the WOC office and ask what to do!
Jul 10, 2018 6:31 PM # 
Pictures please
Jul 10, 2018 6:50 PM # 
GHOSLO, there are some that Meghan posted on Facebook. :)
Jul 10, 2018 6:52 PM # 
Jul 10, 2018 8:12 PM # 
Most of the pictures seem to be showing up on this flickr page, but nothing posted for the sprint yet:
Jul 10, 2018 8:19 PM # 
Sprint album is up now. There are great pics of Emma at the prize giving ceremony and a finish line hug with the winner who finished just ahead of her. There are more photos and video of Emma on Facebook.
Jul 10, 2018 8:24 PM # 
Woohoo - congrats Canada!
Jul 11, 2018 1:26 AM # 
Also due for congratulation - live results, audio, tracking, for the modest sum of 0 euros. And I haven't had any technical hitches so far. With that multi-level complex early on, the courses seemed more challenging than some of the WMOC sprints that I looked at.
Jul 11, 2018 8:10 AM # 
And the JWOC website is so much friendlier than WMOC!
Jul 11, 2018 8:35 AM # 
Yes. D'ya think we could get in if we lied about our age?
Jul 11, 2018 10:40 AM # 
Watching the IOF summary of yesterdays sprint ( ) I am rather sad to see / hear around the 10-second mark a Swiss-sounding voice calling multiple times "inne!" (English: "inside!"), just as a Swiss girl runs through the picture (and into the gate/passage presumably meant by the caller).

I accept that it was probably a spectator rather than a team-member or coach, and that the athlete has no means of rejecting such outside help, but assuming the caller was a fan and orienteer nonetheless - is this really the level of fairness we have in our sport - and the fairness we expect to gain Olympic status with?
Jul 11, 2018 12:02 PM # 
Photos from Sprint
Jul 11, 2018 1:31 PM # 
I didn't realise Emma spent the first minute of her race waiting at the start for Aebersold
Jul 11, 2018 1:50 PM # 
Really, you are going to anonymously bash a kid who just had the race of her life (she was in 6th before Simona caught her, and in 6th at the finish)? Grow up.
Jul 11, 2018 2:06 PM # 
@11433 that's a miserable attitude. You can only race in the circumstances you've been given. Emma was having a great race when she was caught - 9th place at control 9 - hardly faking it. Just because she made a mistake on the same control as Aebersold doesn't mean she was blindly following; surely you're aware of how easy it is to be influenced by other competitors, particularly in the sprint when you're pushing so hard and have so little time. I suggest you just keep your negativity to yourself and let Emma and her supporters enjoy a great result.
Jul 11, 2018 2:28 PM # 
O Joy:
@11433 See the Route Gadget for the race. As expected, there were some similar legs but mostly independent route choices and mistakes.
Jul 11, 2018 2:57 PM # 
Elina B:
Keep your unkind words to yourself and if you can't AP is not the place for you. Emma did great and deserves congratulations.
Jul 11, 2018 3:43 PM # 

But it's not obvious. She was between von Krusenstierna and Prieto when
Aebersold caught her, she gained a bit of time because of Aebersold, she lost a bit of time because of Aebersold's mistake, and then she was between von Krusenstierna and Prieto when she finished. The other runners that dropped out of the top 6 did so because of their own mistakes, not because Emma overtook them.

It is clear that Aebersold affected Emma's run - that's happens with small start intervals, if it wasn't Emma it would have been somebody else - but you cannot say with any certainty that she would not have finished in the top 6 otherwise.

I'm English, don't know Emma and have no particular axe to grind, but I do find the tone of your comments unpleasant.
Jul 11, 2018 5:31 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Not sure if you looked that far back, 11433, but two second place splits prior to being passed suggests she's fast.

Disclaimer: don't know Emma, have been passed by Emma before, could not keep up.
Jul 11, 2018 5:58 PM # 
Looks like Jan Erik has also earned himself a GPS for the middle.
Jul 11, 2018 5:58 PM # 
Get outta here 11433.

How sad.

All things considered, I think we should delete the conversation between 11433 and the AP community.

It's staining a great result and a great positive vibe thread!

Jul 11, 2018 6:50 PM # 
I know I’m not the only person sitting here trying to articulate a response. We all see what you see. We all have winsplits and route gadget. Catching people, being caught, using and seeing other runners - that’s all part of the sport. It happens every year, on every race, at every age. Emma raced hard and trains even harder. She earned her result today 100%. And yes, rude and pointlessly mean behavior should get you deleted. You are not furthering any discussions or helping our sport.

Get out. Your comments are unhelpful and unwarranted.
Jul 11, 2018 7:05 PM # 
+1 Samantha
Even though it's not the way I was brought up, 'cooperative navigation' has become an integral part of racing tactics.
But also, I really feel that it's not right to pick on juniors :(
Jul 11, 2018 7:07 PM # 
I say they got beaten! That’s how it works! Keep your head up, train hard, and keep racing.
Jul 11, 2018 7:09 PM # 
@11433 Klepperton may be wrong in calling the conversation with you being deleted, please note, he is not calling for you being deleted.

Nevertheless, being anonymous and hijacking a thread into the negative is the behavior of an internet troll.

There are numerous examples that you can use to counter your prediction of where someone could end up in time, there is no precise science to predict things, especially with GPS tracks that go through walls and olive green areas. You are doing your analysis in a vacuum of a map with two gps tracks, without knowledge or consideration of the people that were in the streets, shouts that may have been called out from fans or spectators, and numerous other runners being caught or passed.

In any case, troll remains troll.

Personally I would like this thread to be able to return to being a source of information and cheer.
Jul 11, 2018 7:10 PM # 
I'm just sad that no one is talking about how lucky Aebersold was to start a minute behind Emma. She had a world class red and white jersey to chase down and then push her over the second half of the course.
I just feel sad for the girl who finished second.

This happens so often in this sport, I don't know why this anonymous troll is singling out Emma and this race. How many post race interviews have we heard from a winner talk about how after catching someone, that it pushes them over the rest of the race? It's how a time trial based sport works.
Jul 11, 2018 7:17 PM # 
how lucky Aebersold was..
Simona met Emma on her way to 3 and sees how she leaves 3 the same route she went there. Same happens in all the legs 4-5-6-7-8. During those legs Simona built up 30 sec gap to Tereza who ended up getting silver (withexactly that much behind). I would't call that luck, no, tha'ts bad course planning.
Jul 11, 2018 7:27 PM # 
W20-Heat 1
Diana Aleksieva USA 10:13
Rachel May CAN 10:19
Julia Doubson USA 11:25

Heat 2
Brigitte Bordelon USA 11:17
Sianna Dorsey CAN 11:44
Tyra Christopherson USA 11:53

Heat 3
Caroline Sandbo USA 10:33
Emma Waddington CAN 11:21 GPS
Siri Christopherson USA 11:48

M20-Heat 1
Peter Zakrevski USA 10:19
David Bakker CAN 10:25
Christian Michelsen CAN 11:46
Martin Borge Heir USA 12:07

Heat 2
Anthony Riley USA 10:23
Tomas Graham CAN 11:11
David Runde USA 11:32
Michael Svoboda CAN 12:17

Heat 3
Graeme Farrand CAN 10:12
Aidan Minto USA 11:30
Thomas Laraia USA 11:57
Jan Erik Naess CAN 12:06 GPS
Jul 11, 2018 7:27 PM # 
@11433: So were you also complaining when William Lind magically went from 28th to a bronze medal when Olav Lundanes caught him at WOC last year? Or do you only complain when people from inconvenient countries get good results?
Jul 11, 2018 7:31 PM # 
I stand by my thoughts of deleting the conversation from this thread.

11433 - if you are passionate about this ‘issue’, start another thread to discuss it. Don’t screw around with a celebratory thread.

And...(sorry I have to say it)

As far as I’m concerned, my only takeaway from 11433 is a way to be a coward when voicing an opinion on a divisive issue. You feel the need to name names, without naming yourself.

Not cool.


For the record, I feel there is no ‘issue’ here. This is our sport. Emma slayed it.
Jul 11, 2018 7:48 PM # 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Huge congratulations to Emma for a great race and an excellent result; we are all fantastically proud of you. I'll let the curmudgeonly and infinitely prescient armchair critics assert what the "real" results should have been. Such comments do not diminish your dedication, perseverance, and achievement.
Jul 11, 2018 8:03 PM # 
I’m retiring from this conversation.

11433 - I don’t have time for this or you.

Your comments are straight up rude. You’re pissing on a great result by an ultra-dedicated athlete and quality person.

How are you numb to this?

I bet Emma is numb to you - that’s all that matters.

Haters are gonna hate.
Jul 11, 2018 8:06 PM # 
Love the quote Ian!! So true and anyone that wants to armchair-o should remember this! It’s the mental demons as well that need in check.

Congratulations Emma for an amazing race and for preparing yourself physically but also obviously mentally to be able to handle the pressure of anyone racing around you. That takes a lot of practice and skill. Enjoy this feeling and can’t wait to continue watching you grow to a strong senior runner :)
Jul 11, 2018 8:18 PM # 
What a terrific race, Emma!!!
Jul 11, 2018 8:21 PM # 
There is a time and a place for a constructive conversation about good course setting and forking and start intervals and anything else you want to chat about. Start a new thread about your thoughts on how everyone should orienteer alone (quarantine the city? 30 minute start intervals? Run whenever you want and email in your results? I have lots of great ideas).

I would love to continue to argue with you, as insulting young female orienteers really gets my blood boiling, so please feel free to email me or maybe we can meet up for coffee someday. Plus, as we seem to live in the same part of the world, let me know what events you’re going to when you get to be out in the forest or city and race completely alone.
Jul 11, 2018 8:22 PM # 
The matter has been argued, published in Nature, and settled. Please kindly contact your national representative with your proposed input for future IOF Rules revisions. Please include peer-reviewed data.
Jul 11, 2018 8:48 PM # 
Amazing Emma! You did good! We are proud of you!
Jul 11, 2018 9:17 PM # 
Emma could not control her start time, in fact, she originally wanted the middle start slot but graciously conceded it to one of her teammates. She raced the best race she could under the conditions that were presented to her just like every other runner in that field did.
Should runners as clearly exceptional as Simona be kept out of the start list because their presence may elevate the racing of others? Should runners be forced to take a less favourable route because someone ahead of them has taken the optimal one? Should talented runners slow down at a world championship because someone even faster passed them and is still in sight? No. Every runner out there on that course was pushed and pulled and led into controls by the runners around them. That is the nature of the sprint with a one minute interval. If it truly was a challenge of the individual against the course then we would have a 10 minute start interval and courses that did not cross.

Regardless of all of that, Emma didn't do what you are accusing her of, which is to put her map away and let Simona pull her to greatness.
Emma aggressively fought off Simona for as long as she could (despite many opportunities to hold off and wait for her to take the lead) and then kept on map reading and navigating the whole way to the end. How do I know this? Because I have been working with her for years, I was there in the days leading up to the race, I was there in the arena and I have been there since the moment she finished the race. I didn't just see some split times and a shaky GPS track on the internet and assume that she couldn't possibly have done it on her own.
I also know that she is damned proud of every single step she took in that race and gave everything that she had.
She raced hard and intelligently and completely within the rules of the competition and she deserves to celebrate and be celebrated by the community that has watched her grow into an amazing athlete and woman.

Please go away now.
Jul 11, 2018 9:36 PM # 
@11433 I didn't realize Attackpoint had incels
Jul 12, 2018 12:15 AM # 
I generally distrust great oratory, but that Roosevelt speech was uplifting, Ian. And your tailpiece was fine writing too. But most of all, well done Emma!
Jul 12, 2018 1:00 AM # 
Yes, and very well said, Atropos! In coming years, Emma will continue to prove that she's world class but at least one person has already proven that he has no class.
Jul 12, 2018 1:10 AM # 
@Bash Let's not put a gender on a number ;)
Jul 12, 2018 1:49 AM # 
>Its easy to let a faster runner pass you.

Clearly not written by someone who understands anything about high-level competition.
Jul 12, 2018 2:31 AM # 
Running alone sounds like it suits you rather well, dipshit. Feel free.
Jul 12, 2018 3:04 AM # 
So, after reading the recent comments on Emma's run, I had a bit of a closer look at Emma's splits. As far as I can tell ..
1) She was killing it out there on her own for the first 9 controls (2nd on two legs, in 5th place after 5 legs!!! Wow!).
2) She was killing it running with Simona for the next 7 controls (until they both blew #17 ... oops).
3) She was killing it running on her own for the last 5 controls.
What's not to love? Awesome run by an awesome girl. So proud of her. And, it's not like this success has suddenly come out of nowhere ... Emma's been rocking the sprints for quite some time.

Totally agree with the very thoughtful posts by Samantha, Neil, Ian, et al. And, so happy for Meghan to be able to share in her success.

(Not letting the grumpy number-person rain on my parade.)
Jul 12, 2018 7:28 AM # 
@11433 there's background to the story that you probably don't know but most of the others do. It explains the perceived irrationality "like one of your own kids". At this point I don't think making you aware of the background would make anything better.

Nevertheless, 11433 has a somewhat valid point. And everyone arguing against 11433 understands that on some explicit or subconscious level, and that's why the trolling is so effective. Quite like, say, the People vs. 45*. Our case has been argued many times for over a hundred years, and settled; following is part of the sport made so by its nature, and although we all understand it's not particularly great, there's not a better, by some set of metrics, and practical system that is known to us. So, we accept it and cheer those who highly achieve in our sport within its culture and set of rules.
Jul 12, 2018 7:39 AM # 
Got the chance to run on a team with Emma this year and she was very impressive. Clearly a very strong orienteer. A huge congratulations on a stormer of a run.

Also LOL at the troll going anonymous so we can't find their numerous runs where they got a pull factor.
Jul 12, 2018 7:40 AM # 
(deep breath)

I think the only way to make this bot disappear is to stifle our need to address its drivel.

Let’s start.

We’re obviously dealing with an unreasonable, tone deaf, and insensitive individual here.
Jul 12, 2018 7:43 AM # 
@11433 Embarrassing? Not really. I'd be more embarrassed about failing to get the simple point that a young woman and the community that supports her should be allowed to celebrate the achievement without it being unkindly dismissed as 'faking it'. There's another time and place for discussion of the failings of the sport.
Jul 12, 2018 8:04 AM # 
“like one of your own kids”

She is my kid and she is an amazing kid as well and she has worked very hard to get to where she is. Your post implying she was faking it was disgusting and i’m sorry you feel you need to anonymously cyber bully a young female athlete like my daughter to make a point.

There are other avenues and places for you to discuss fairness of start order and start interval and course design but not here and especially not after Emma just got on the podium at a jr world champs. How dare you try to rain on her parade. (i’m biased but yeah this is kinda a big deal for North American orienteering).

And yes many wonderful people are defending her like she is one of their own kids as well because Emma is a kind, caring and pleasant person and is a great role model for the dozens of kids she volunteer coaches for. They know that.

Finally, you have no idea how courageous and difficult a journey Emma has endured to get to where she is. How dare you to suggest she is undeserving.

So as her very proud father I would appreciate you stop these personal cyber bullying attacks on her and I kindly ask that you just go away.
Jul 12, 2018 8:27 AM # 
Let's calm down everyone. Anonymous 11433 seems to have commended for years log of 7th placed girl's brother(?) so it is possible he/she knows the other side of the story, lots of hard work and years struggle resulting barely outside podium. Sure, that's not good reason for anonymous attacks and being rude.

Athletes do their best and use the advantage they can get, earned or not, including following. Their responsibility ends there. Course planners makes sure race is fair enough and following factor isn't too decisive. That's orienteering, and that's also how it should be. If someone is not fine with that then there is other sports available, no-one is forcing anyone to do O.
Jul 12, 2018 8:59 AM # 
Sorry for the loser comment. I deleted it when I read it back and realised there was a high likelihood i was being mean on the internet to some kid who's friend is a bit heartbroken about coming seventh not sixth.

I would ask you to create another thread if you really want to have a discussion about the unfairness of JWOC start order or the like.

I am of the opinion that it looks like Emma did everything in her power to have a fair race. That's all she can do so there's really no point in trying to make her or anyone else feel otherwise.
Jul 12, 2018 9:42 AM # 
GPS for the middle quali seems kinda spotty
Jul 12, 2018 9:42 AM # 
"I am of the opinion that it looks like Emma did everything in her power to have a fair race. That's all she can do so there's really no point in trying to make her or anyone else feel otherwise." +1

If she was blindly following, she wouldn't have corrected the way she did at #17 (among other things). It is simply not possible to have somebody catch up to you and for that have zero impact on your race.

Pointing out she was 9th at the point where she was caught is meaningless because a) the time gap between 6th and 9th at this point was very small and b) it is a more a reflection of a sub-optimal route choice --> #3 than anything else.

(If you want to look at splits and find people who are following, I think there are a few cases in the middle qualifying right now... start a thread about that!)
Jul 12, 2018 9:58 AM # 
I just went out training, zoomed out a bit and thought on my comments, and I would like to apologize. I acted wrong and had no reason what so ever to do that. The combination of me knowing some of the people around the spanish federation and knowing what a struggle they have (as your federations probably) combined with how it looked in sweden after Linds brons made me see red. You cant even compare Lind with the situation on the sprint bu i did and it was so wrong. It took the worst out of me and its a shame that i acted like I did.

From the bottom of my heart, especially to Emma and Hammer, i would like to apologize. It was the wrong time, the wrong place, the wrong way and the wrong case for such discussion and now i see it. I will delete my earlier comments so no one belive they where right.
Jul 12, 2018 10:37 AM # 
Nice one @11433 :)
Jul 12, 2018 10:59 AM # 
Thank you.
Jul 12, 2018 11:24 AM # 
Well the middle qual is wrapped up. Cue heart-wrenching stories of just missing out by x seconds:-)) How have countries done in terms of finalists?
Jul 12, 2018 11:30 AM # 
Izzy B:
Strange that a direct apology to Emma was left out of that.
Jul 12, 2018 12:26 PM # 
Izzy B: edited now.

By that I leave attackpoint. Once again, sorry for allt this, especially to Emma who did nothing wrong. Best of luck to all of you for the rest of the competitions.
Jul 12, 2018 3:47 PM # 
I’m sorry to bring out the rulebook BUT it clearly states in 26.2 that one competitor should not receive help from another in a race which clearly Simona has as she abused Emma’s route choice and sat with her, knowing she’d finish in front, for the rest of the course. In my opinion this should be an obvious disqualification with her position taken away from her as someone who just got lucky enough to follow doesn’t deserve a podium at JWOC
Jul 12, 2018 3:56 PM # 
We have another troll here. This one is 11443 not 11433.
Jul 12, 2018 3:58 PM # 
No u
Jul 12, 2018 4:03 PM # 
True, the IOF's definition of orienteering is that it's "a sport in which the competitors navigate independently throughout the terrain", and that is what we all strive towards, but sometimes it doesn't pan out that way. With my national technical director's hat on, I would not consider the above situation to be a rule breach - only if they had held hands and skipped around the course together, then that might count as assistance...
Jul 12, 2018 4:32 PM # 
Jul 12, 2018 7:05 PM # 
Well done to all runners for making it to JWOC in the first place.
Jul 12, 2018 7:52 PM # 
@11443 I would just like to say thank you for coming forward and saying you’re sorry and admitting reflection. I think at times that is very hard to do as well. We all get emotional and say things. But I at least appreciate the formal apology in public.

But I would also like to take this as a chance to reflect and learn. I think this proves how much top level sport is stressful, emotional and downright hard! We do a very good job at congratulating those having done well but struggle on knowing what to say to those that are hurting. Which is possibly even more important as a junior when one is trying to grown/learn/prove themselves ect. I know the smaller federations can use the “we don’t have the same resources, training chances, ect. As the bigger federations” which seems like a cop out but it’s true who stands at the finish for someone just missing out on an A final but parents and volunteer coaches who just want to support us and for us to be happy with our races. (And we wouldn’t be where we are without you all!!! Thank you!!!!) Unlike other sports and teams which have special coaches trained in dealing with the mental and emotional support. So with that being said does anyone have anything to share that they have felt was really useful when dealing with upset runners who tried their hardest, or maybe helping those that preformed really well for the first time manage expectations moving forward?

Just a thought...
Jul 12, 2018 9:34 PM # 
What's that saying, "can't see the fores for the trees"? Onward to the Middle.
Jul 12, 2018 10:36 PM # 
I think the saying is, "If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear the forest fall."

Canadian poet.....middle it is.
Jul 13, 2018 12:11 PM # 
Tough day at the office. Even the best can make mistakes. Hosts will be pleased.
Jul 13, 2018 1:29 PM # 
If an orienteer finds an SI unit in the forest and it doesn't make a sound, is it still a mispunch?
Jul 13, 2018 4:44 PM # 
Question- how did Simone DQ, out of curiosity?
Jul 13, 2018 5:49 PM # 
Simona's DQ: It appears from 10 to 11 there was a prescribed stretch which she did not take. All 4 DQed did the same, turn right immediately rather than follow a probably flagged prescribed route out of the spectator control
Jul 13, 2018 7:58 PM # 
Photos from the Middle Final:
Jul 14, 2018 11:42 AM # 
Jan Erik just over a minute behind in 13th place at the arena passage
Jul 14, 2018 5:07 PM # 
Your photos are awesome as always Robert. Thanks for sharing them!
Jul 14, 2018 9:21 PM # 
Peter MacKenzie:
Congrats to all Canadian juniors at the 2018 JWOC event. All the hours of training and competing have brought you to this point. Continue to strive to be your best in academics, work and life!

Jan, congrats on crushing the 32nd place (Canadian male) result I posted 25 years ago at JWOC!
Jul 14, 2018 10:03 PM # 
Nice pictures! Thanks for sharing them.
Jul 15, 2018 10:44 AM # 
Terje Mathisen:
I'm very optimistic for the future of the Norwegian WOC team. :-)

2 of the 3 repeat relay winners will be back for one more year, but from 2020 both Elias and Kasper will also be seniors, and at that point quite a few nations should be worried.

We have nearly the same situation among the ladies with a nice bunch of juniors coming up, but here both Sweden and Switzerland are probably ahead, and Denmark is very hard to beat in continental terrain.
Jul 15, 2018 4:13 PM # 
Relay story?
17 team mispunches?! Many big names.
Jul 15, 2018 8:05 PM # 
Yes in Europe they do have rather lengthy pronunciations.
Jul 18, 2018 3:32 PM # 
Seriously, what is the deal with the MPs?
Jul 18, 2018 6:37 PM # 
Relays are notorious for MPs in any level of the sport. It's too much effort to unfold your map to look at the control code so you look where your adversary has gone instead and hope for the best. Plus it only takes one person to MP the whole team so the rate always looks higher than it actually is across all runners.
Jul 18, 2018 8:00 PM # 
I'm going to guess EricW is aware of the concepts of relays, he did course set a WOC Relay and run in a few of them.
Jul 19, 2018 2:23 PM # 
Nah, Eric set the WOC Short.
Jul 19, 2018 2:50 PM # 
Didn't Heather Williams do the relay?

In any case, does anyone know what happened in the JWOC relay? Mispunches or not, I just want some color.
Jul 19, 2018 4:21 PM # 
Relay- Steve Tarry
Jul 19, 2018 4:52 PM # 
Thanks Eric.

Maybe we can re-hash the WOC 93 Relay (which was a great one.) Steve Hale and Co..! Not too many mispunches at that race methinks?
Jul 19, 2018 5:09 PM # 
And the most intense forking ever. No two competitors had the same map. 32 men's teams, 4 legs, 128 unique maps. Same deal for the women, though there were fewer teams.

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