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Discussion: Jukola/Venla

in: Orienteering; General

Jun 16, 2018 11:10 AM # 
This Venla english commentary really needs GG and Boris!
Jun 16, 2018 12:25 PM # 
I was just thinking the same thing!!
(Or maybe Minna Kauppi)
Jun 16, 2018 12:36 PM # 
A small excursion to possibly useless statistics: after removing empty and obviously vacant names, there are 6289 registered persons for Venla and 12914 persons for Jukola - totalling 19203 persons.

Assuming (for simplicity) that a given runner can only run once at Venla and/or once at Jukola, there are 6227 unique names at Venla and 12582 uniques at Jukola.

Merging those and looking for duplicates only, we find 531 - that's nealy 3% of total - names presumed to be running BOTH races.

Good luck to everybody!
Jun 16, 2018 12:39 PM # 
Here I thought I had too much time on my hands.
Jun 16, 2018 5:51 PM # 
DVOA will be on GPS tracking on the first leg.
Jun 16, 2018 7:26 PM # 
Any bets on which NA team will finish first?
Jun 16, 2018 7:50 PM # 
Anyone else having trouble getting the stream open, or just me?
Jun 16, 2018 7:56 PM # 
same here :-(
Jun 16, 2018 8:01 PM # 
same here
Jun 16, 2018 8:01 PM # 
me too
Jun 16, 2018 8:03 PM # 
Excellent Finnish radio broadcast for free at
Jun 16, 2018 8:05 PM # 
Frustrating for 16 Euros...
Jun 16, 2018 8:06 PM # 
Venla TV recordings at
Jun 16, 2018 8:07 PM # 
Is it possible to get the YLE Jukola tv broadcast outside of Finland? Can anyone mirror it for us?
Jun 16, 2018 8:09 PM # 
Very frustrating because I had it working and then restarted my computer to fix a mirroring issue with the tv and now nothing...grr.
Jun 16, 2018 8:11 PM # 
Tor browser plays YLE TV recordings but not live TV.
Jun 16, 2018 8:12 PM # 
Ugh. Looks like Jukola is falling behind Tiomila in technology and broadcast quality...
Jun 16, 2018 8:15 PM # 
now I get the stream!
But I wanted to watch the start as well....
Jun 16, 2018 8:39 PM # 
Dead again.
Jun 16, 2018 8:43 PM # 
Jun 16, 2018 8:47 PM # 
Jun 16, 2018 8:52 PM # 
frustratingly missed the start as it took way too long to load. now dead again.. jukola is usually a sure bet but their choice of cdn this year has let them down big time. Missed venla start as the payment process took way too long and then needed to install flash. There are heaps of CDn's that don't need flash.
Jun 16, 2018 9:16 PM # 
Anyone have anything working?
Jun 16, 2018 9:18 PM # 
nope. Missed the whole first leg now basically...
Jun 16, 2018 9:21 PM # 
Nothing. Going to bed...
Jun 16, 2018 9:21 PM # 
Looks like I‘ll get some sleep this night...
Jun 16, 2018 9:32 PM # 
This is working at the moment:
Jun 16, 2018 9:32 PM # 
I continue to enjoy excellent Finnish radio broadcast at
Jun 16, 2018 9:35 PM # 
Very good! I can see it too and I didn't even pay...
Jun 16, 2018 9:39 PM # 
Thanks Boris. Let’s hope this one doesn’t drop out.
Jun 16, 2018 9:44 PM # 
Now the backup stream is also dead for me...
Jun 16, 2018 9:47 PM # 
Everything was so promising for a minute there!
Jun 16, 2018 9:53 PM # 
Damn it! I had the link working that Boris shared, now nothing. So frustrating! I'm out.
Jun 16, 2018 9:54 PM # 
I've lost my streaming.
Jun 16, 2018 10:05 PM # 
This one might go down in history as the worst stuff up.. At least in the past most of the time the CDN has been rock solid, just the payment gateway has been bad. So if something goes wrong you just take the paywall away and everyone watches for free... this one everything has been slow, paying, the need for flash etc. but top that off with the fact that the stream actually isn't working just may make it the worst error around.
Jun 16, 2018 10:07 PM # 
Well I think it is time talking about how we can get our money back. I am happy to pay for Orienteering coverage to encourage production of footage, but starting to be put off more and more by unusually high % of issues with event coverage (Jukola, IOF...)
Jun 16, 2018 10:08 PM # 
It’s back (not sure how long for though)!
Jun 16, 2018 10:09 PM # 
And gone again!
Jun 16, 2018 10:16 PM # 
I need Flash? That's silly.
Jun 16, 2018 10:35 PM # 
Now there's a YouTube stream as well:
Jun 17, 2018 12:03 AM # 
I'm now watching on the YouTube stream and it's working well.

Just started watching. Not the most interesting part of the race...
Jun 17, 2018 12:14 AM # 
Me too. Keeping hoping I'll spot JJ on the video somewhere ...
Jun 17, 2018 12:52 AM # 
Emma is up next.... again ... great job on the Venla earlier
Jun 17, 2018 1:15 AM # 
Go Emma USA! Wait what?! ;-)
Jun 17, 2018 1:23 AM # 
Anton Salmenkyla off to a great start for HS2 on leg#5. Looks like he ran the first 3.5km faster than the lead team.
Jun 17, 2018 1:27 AM # 
Will Thomas make up over 300 positions before he finishes? Hells yeah he will!
Jun 17, 2018 1:40 AM # 
Yay, JJ finished. Go Jeff. Only 1771 ahead of you ... no problem!
Jun 17, 2018 1:43 AM # 
Anton through the first 6.4km on leg#5 only 17s slower than Kivikas's time.
Jun 17, 2018 2:22 AM # 
Nice Jeff. 41 down, 1730 to go...
Jun 17, 2018 2:48 AM # 
Looks like Jan Erik is on his way.
Jun 17, 2018 3:04 AM # 
Looks like Hubmann is running away with it ...
Jun 17, 2018 4:46 AM # 
Just to show that it's not just orienteering which suffers from such problems, the streaming service that's bought the Australian rights to 2/3 of the World Cup matches has also had a less than stellar opening to the tournament:
Jun 17, 2018 6:29 AM # 
Is there a postal option? I get mail in my letterbox every second day.
Jun 17, 2018 6:33 AM # 
We're sitting here wondering some thing about Jukola and figure that there is surely someone here on AP who knows the answers.

How long have headlamps been used in orienteering? Has Jukola been run over night since the beginning? If not, when did it start being a night race?
Jun 17, 2018 1:04 PM # 
Maybe it started with carbide lamps, the kind with an acetylene flame that miners and cavers used to use. :-)
Jun 17, 2018 6:15 PM # 
A.Le Coq:
Regarding Jukola the first ever relay was run 12 June 1949. B&W picture of the first start shows that almost every man had somekind of headlamp, which actually look quite modern (but I guess, not too many lumens).

The first relay was run with 41 teams and 287 competitors. Weather was cold and rainy, especially considering the skills and outfit of the participants. B&w topographic map 1:30.000 was used. 15 teams crossed the finish line. The winning time of Helsingin Suunnistajat was 11.56.39. Certainly overnight run.

Source: Salmenkylä, E. (ed.) 1989. Jukolan viestin tarina 1949-1988. Kaukametsäläiset ry. Helsinki. ISBN 952-90077-01.
Jun 18, 2018 1:12 AM # 
USA results (

Venla--"OUSA" team, with at least one OUSA junior -- 373 / 1518 finishing teams

* OUSA (mostly?) juniors -- 422 / 1644 finishing teams (11:56:28; winners were 7:27:18)
* UpNorth Orienteers -- 1468th place (17:18:15)
* DVOA -- was in 219th place before last leg but last runner DNF

OUSA Juniors matched almost exactly the time of the first winning Jukola team in 1949. ;-)

Anton Salmenkylä (OUSA Team member who lives in Finland) ran on a Helsingen team that finished in 62nd place.
Jun 18, 2018 2:41 AM # 
So what is the story of the unusual map symbol encountered right out of the start triangle, and critical to route choice?
almost 412 orchard, but with 403 rough open(?) in a context that would usually suggest a logged area.
Jun 18, 2018 3:37 AM # 
It was a logged area. It made sense when you got there.
Jun 18, 2018 5:40 AM # 
Good showing from some APers - Kris 1st on leg 1, Ralph - 2nd on Leg 1, fenry (Australia) - 12th on Leg 1. Tim Robertson NZ was 10th on Leg 1 but not sure if he is on AP.
Jun 18, 2018 7:09 AM # 
It is ISOM symbol 404, widely used this season here, also mentioned in instructions.
Jun 18, 2018 10:03 AM # 
Terje Mathisen:
As Jagge writes, this is a new (ISOM 2017) allowed combination of the old yellow with white dots "bomb raster" and green to indicate enough vegetation to reduce both visibility and running speed.
Jun 18, 2018 2:12 PM # 
Green in 404 could be used before. It has, around here.
Jun 19, 2018 3:07 AM # 
If there had been a symbol for airborne dust, it could have been used extensively.
Jun 25, 2018 6:13 PM # 
Jun 26, 2018 8:58 AM # 
Terje Mathisen:
Jukola was as usual an enormously impressive event, clearly the best organized orienteering competition in the world (I'll include WOC etc in that comparison).

Personally I would have been a lot happier with maybe 10 min less mistakes, but it was still a nice trip to Hollola!
Jun 26, 2018 12:10 PM # 
I agree with all of Terje's points!
Jun 26, 2018 1:03 PM # 
Well, restaurant capacity was insufficient, and so was forking for the first 3 legs. For example the first leg had only 9 variations and had lots of unforked legs. For comparison 2015 and 2016 there was 36 variations in use for the first leg.
Jun 26, 2018 11:15 PM # 
What was the espresso like?
Jun 27, 2018 6:04 AM # 
Terje Mathisen:
I ran the 4th leg this year (for the first time, I have always had the second or in one case the third on previous races) so I didn't notice this. When I made mistakes in the negative contour areas I had absolutely no help from other runners. :-)

I do agree with you re the restaurant queues, I resorted to eating grilled salmon at the unofficial bbq close to the shower/sauna.
Jun 27, 2018 2:05 PM # 
I ran second leg and also didn't notice the forking issues, but I started my leg in 1809th place. However, I also got the salmon at the place across the street, and it was great!
Jun 28, 2018 10:11 AM # 
Has anybody had any response to any complaints about the pretty dissatisfying live streaming?
Jun 28, 2018 1:01 PM # 
I linked in to that YouTube streaming mentioned above. I got in late - the middle of the second last leg for the Jukola leaders. The drama of the race was all but over by then but I still thought it was a fun webcast to be watching all those spermatazoa-like objects race across the screen. The commentators lacked the drama of an American sports reporter settling instead for the Finnish matter-of-fact approach but it was impressive and how the hell did that video reporter in the forest keep up with those top runners? Was he/she on a bike?
Jun 28, 2018 1:51 PM # 
I certainly think you guys should petition the Jukola organizers to replace the English commentators with, say, a team with some Tiomila commentary experience. :) :) :)
Jun 29, 2018 8:05 AM # 
Or everybody learn to speak Finnish. The Finnish language commentary on YLE was excellent, very exciting and involved! ;)
Jul 5, 2018 8:23 AM # 
Yep. That unofficial salmon was one of my three unexpectedly excellent meals that weekend. (The other two were the Tex-Mex on Lahti's main square and the scrambled eggs at Vantaa.) Y'all should try the unofficial salmon next time.
Jul 5, 2018 10:14 AM # 
I even ordered the unofficial salmon in Finnish. Which provoked a great laugh from the salmon crew.
Jul 5, 2018 1:48 PM # 
You mean you typed salmon into your Translate and it returned salmiakki?
Jul 5, 2018 2:20 PM # 
No, I read aloud the alphabet soup from the sign over the counter.
Jul 5, 2018 7:07 PM # 
In Finnish each written letter is always represented by the same sound and each sound is written with the same letter. So, if you learn how to pronounce all letters you can pronounce any Finnsh text correctly and everyone (except you) will understand it just fine. And you will sound pretty much native Finn and can get mistaken as a native Finn reading aloud. When I was in school back in 80's we had an exchange student from Atlanta and he entertained us with this skill by reading us newspapers, school books and what ever. So learning to pronounce Finnish athlete's names (right, names are no exception) in 10mila may not be as difficult as one might think.
Jul 5, 2018 8:05 PM # 
When I was in practice, I could read Greek aloud perfectly, even though I understood little of it.
Jul 5, 2018 10:00 PM # 
My professor of Swedish also taught Finnish, but I didn't end up taking it. Would have been fun.

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