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Discussion: Billygoat Results

in: 2018 Billygoat XL (May 13, 2018 - Peekskill, NY, US)

May 14, 2018 12:24 AM # 
Billygoat XL preliminary results are now available at:

Thanks to Susie for getting the results up.
May 14, 2018 12:55 AM # 
One correction: Bernie Bretton ran the full course, not Pygmy. Time looks correct though.

And thanks to everyone involved. It was a fun course.
May 14, 2018 1:43 AM # 
Thanks to Joe for a great course! First the southern loop with relative easy flow and a lot of goat running, followed by a nice, but more technical flat loop in the northern part. After #19 the final battle with the split (and the skip to be used before it was over) and suddenly I am out there on my own and doing the work.

Of course also a big thank-you to the whole crew around Geof, who made this event happening so beautifully!
May 14, 2018 2:26 AM # 
Thanks for a great billygoat, HVO and WCOC! Allison, Inara, and I all had a fantastic time!
May 14, 2018 1:44 PM # 
Thanks and congrats on a great event! I had a blast on what I believe is only my second Billygoat. Looking forward to the next one!
May 14, 2018 2:15 PM # 
According to J-J's voluminous statistics, your 3rd: 2003 at Trout Brook Valley and 2006 at Macedonia Brook. Congratulations!
May 14, 2018 2:21 PM # 
Is there a consensus for the "best" skip?
May 14, 2018 2:50 PM # 
I've heard 17, 20, and 24 as popular choices. 9 also looks like a pretty good choice, but I wonder how many folks were brave enough to spend their skip that early before getting into the northern loops.

One guy running in my vicinity accidentally skipped 8. As in: "Hey that's an unexpected trail crossing." Me: "no, it's right." Him: "Wait... did you guys already punch 8?"

I can say that several people who were ahead of us at 13 ended up behind us at 22 after they skipped 17 and we skipped 20.
May 14, 2018 4:24 PM # 
Izzy B:
Wild to see Keegan Harkavy, a JDT athlete, beat multiple JNT athletes on such a tough race! Looking forward to seeing him run internationally (hopefully) soon ;)
May 14, 2018 5:06 PM # 
May 14, 2018 5:23 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Izzy is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
May 14, 2018 5:51 PM # 
Well said, Mr. Wonderful!
May 14, 2018 6:34 PM # 
Great run by Bridget and Kristin. J-J, does this make the Federer-Hall family the first three generation family of finishers? (I don't mind bragging ;<))
May 14, 2018 6:48 PM # 
Lyons family several times, and done twice in a single Billygoat, but a fine accomplishment for the Federer-Hall family, too.
May 14, 2018 6:58 PM # 
Thanks, Charlie.
May 14, 2018 10:41 PM # 
And Tony, Kristin actually won, but her epunch is slower than Bridget ‘s. At least that’s how they explained it to me ;-).
I ran the first 5 controls with them but they’re just stronger/faster (and younger).

YES, really impressive run by Keegan! There were a lot of great junior results.
May 15, 2018 12:09 AM # 
Can Billygoat splits be posted on AP, or do the skips preclude that?
May 15, 2018 12:27 AM # 
Splits on AP would be really nice. Ken has a great skip analyzer that works on billygoat results.
May 15, 2018 12:50 AM # 
Anyone can upload the map to the routegadget?
May 15, 2018 12:57 AM # 
Thanks so much everyone! Great course, great terrain, great event.
May 15, 2018 1:10 AM # 
Before the race I was speculating how many Juniors would be in 'my' chase pack... but during most of the race, it was quite 'the Junior pack' that I was struggling to keep sight of instead! Very well done, by several Juniors, including solid navigation in world class terrain.

Great course by Joe too - *so* many places where constant attention to detail and 50m route differences could gain valuable seconds.
May 15, 2018 1:27 AM # 
but her epunch is slower than Bridget‘s

Or they punched at different finish boxes, which weren't quite synced.
May 15, 2018 12:14 PM # 
They did punch at different boxes, which were synced, but Bridget was fractionally faster than Kristen. I think it was deliberate as Kristen did not want the Goat "cluttering up her bedroom", and anyway she got the fruit tart - much the better part of the deal in my opinion.
May 15, 2018 5:33 PM # 
Splits are up on AP. Also Win Splits at
May 15, 2018 5:33 PM # 
Actually, to be clear, we were trying very hard to tie! We stood with our e-punches poised over the holes, counted down, and "dibbed" ... but clearly a fraction different. Our family definitely views it as a tie.
It is true that I claimed the fruit tart (shared it though) and that I think the goat would look much better in Bridget's bedroom than mine. But currently it is on the mantel in the living room.
It was a great day - thanks to all involved (organizers and fellow runners). I like team orienteering, discussing routes, working together to stay on route and to plan ... My knee won't tolerate a rogaine, so this is the only chance I get!
May 15, 2018 5:38 PM # 
And I'll second Wyatt's comment on how great it was to have so many juniors. Also great to have so many women! At one point in the middle I think we had Angelica, Alex, Tyra, Marie, Bridge, Bridget, Elina, Deidre and me all together. It was great!
May 15, 2018 7:39 PM # 
Looks like 7, after all, was among the best skips. Mainly because there are no good skips out there...

Not quite sure how well Attackpoint does with skips and forks combined, though.
May 15, 2018 8:25 PM # 
I just wanted to brag about skipping control 7.
It made perfect sense though visually it looked dumb.
I trusted my calculations more than my feeling.
The distance between 8-7 - 150 meters, and the same length back.
Altogether 300 meters! At my speed, I gained 4:20. No other control could give me such an advantage.
May 15, 2018 9:02 PM # 
Actually, to be clear, we were trying very hard to tie!

In that case, you did. That's what the master record will show.
May 16, 2018 2:58 AM # 
Well, this is weird. I've generally been pretty impressed with the job that Split Analysis does, but I'm baffled by what happened with bhall and khall. Same skip, elapsed time differs by one second, and the furthest apart they were at any control was 12 seconds. But khall has 3:47 in lost time, while bhall has 5:06. Huh? In fact, Bridget shows a 36 second error on #1, while her mother was clean, even though they had the same split time! Likewise on #23, Kristin was clean, Bridget was 5 seconds slower and lost 42 seconds. Did the algorithm cut Kristin some slack because it was Mother's Day? :-)
May 16, 2018 3:19 AM # 
Note the different median leg scores of 62.6 and 63.6 for the two of them. That appears to be what the algorithm compares to the score for any given leg. So, for bhall, a leg score of 58.6 is low enough to trigger an 'error' flag. Not for khall.
May 16, 2018 3:51 AM # 
This is a cool border-line anomaly.
May 16, 2018 12:23 PM # 
Any chance of Routegadget? Or just a jpg file posted somewhere?
May 16, 2018 12:27 PM # 
Gswede has posted his route...
May 16, 2018 12:37 PM # 
ROUTEGADGET is in the works.
May 16, 2018 5:09 PM # 
Only in the US do you get this sort of coolness (terrain + billygoat format + ace courses)
May 16, 2018 6:19 PM # 
All we are missing are the orienteers...
May 16, 2018 6:23 PM # 
Rumor is that next year's Billygoat takes place at Burnt Mountain in New Hampshire, site of the NAOC 2016 Long.
May 16, 2018 6:26 PM # 
After relearning what it takes to get the BG splits sorted, RouteGadget is ready and available here for both events:

EDIT - BG map too dark. Deleting and trying again. Standby.
May 16, 2018 9:28 PM # 
OK, have at it you BillyGoaters. Still a little cluttered, but the overprinting is not as overpowering now, as it was originally.
May 16, 2018 10:06 PM # 
Thanks Kristin for clearing that up! Tying with your daughter on Mother's Day ... that's pretty cool.
May 16, 2018 10:07 PM # 
Valerie, that map looks much better than the one we actually ran with! Nice job. Thanks.
May 16, 2018 10:12 PM # 
Hah, Peggy, I heard that, but you know me... :)
May 16, 2018 11:26 PM # 
Thanks, JJ, for making it official.

Bridget's loss of a bit over 5 minutes is DEFINITELY more accurate than my loss of 3:47. It was pretty definitely more than 5, actually. By far the best error was getting stuck on the stepping stones that ended not close enough to the far side of the pond. Only wish I could have convinced more people to follow me ;-)
May 17, 2018 12:01 PM # 
I’d rather do a Billygoat with 100 people than the JK with 3000.

But is the average age of competitor getting older so might there be a risk for the future?
May 17, 2018 12:16 PM # 
I would say that was the trend for a while, but we had a good group of juniors finishing this year, so I think there is some optimism to be had.
May 17, 2018 12:18 PM # 
I think 7 of the top 10 finishers this year were under 30, if I am counting correctly.
May 17, 2018 12:56 PM # 
I think I can do an analysis of the average competitor age through the years once I get this year's results entered in the database.
May 17, 2018 1:04 PM # 
Top 10 isn't a great measure, because it's unlikely those top 10 will be old, right? Good to see so many juniors tackling the Billygoat!
May 17, 2018 1:19 PM # 
You'd think so, but last year only 3/10 were under 30...
May 17, 2018 8:14 PM # 
This year we had a small horde of juniors plowing after the top runners!
May 18, 2018 1:39 PM # 
Being that this was the Bilygoat, it would be more correctly said that a HERD of juniors where plowing after the top runners...
May 18, 2018 3:41 PM # 
Three of the top 10 finishers live on Henry Street, Cambridge MA, and none of them are related.
May 19, 2018 10:16 PM # 
Izzy B:
^^ What are you feeding them?
May 20, 2018 12:10 AM # 
Vegetables grown in buckets and urban eggs?
May 20, 2018 10:54 PM # 
And it should be a herd of "kids" surely. (khall not ahall, just too lazy to log him out)

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